Pro Tools 7 TDM Plugin Clipping

[atticmike]

Howdy there,

I have a question for those who had worked with PT 7.4 on a TDM System:

Did clipping a plugin in the old days always result really in clipping with the fixed point system or clean unless the channel's headroom was met?

[JFreak]

Clipping TDM is always audible. However, some plugins oversample and *may* result in an unclipped signal. Even then, the red bulb made me adjust the levels.

[atticmike]

Originally Posted by JFreak

Clipping TDM is always audible. However, some plugins oversample and *may* result in an unclipped signal. Even then, the red bulb made me adjust the levels.

So in theory, every clipped tdm instance, regardless of the plugin's intentional setup, resulted in clipping?

Nowadays, there are just a few plugins that really clip when exceeding the internal 0 dbfs mark, like Linmb from Waves. So I could stack up 50 dB crossing over 0, not clipping if I pull it down again by 50 before the physical out.

I mean, nowadays it doesn't matter, unless I clip the last output when ITB / going out on an output? Didn't the old plugins work the same way? Internally if not intentional, not clipping? Unless the channel's headroom was met and no channel fader pulled down?

Also, when you for example clipped a channel before heading to the last internal bus instance, did it clip or arrive at let's say +10 over 0 in the last bus instance and then clipped before the physical output?

[JFreak]

If it clips on the TDM-land, it is clipped. Plugin's internal processing is another story, and the clipping light is lit when the signal hits 0.0dBFS (it doesn't care what the plugin does internally)

[atticmike]

Originally Posted by JFreak

If it clips on the TDM-land, it is clipped. Plugin's internal processing is another story, and the clipping light is lit when the signal hits 0.0dBFS (it doesn't care what the plugin does internally)

but what if you clip the plugin, that didn't have an intentional clipping built in and then pulled the fader down afterwards?

[JFreak]

Originally Posted by atticmike

but what if you clip the plugin, that didn't have an intentional clipping built in and then pulled the fader down afterwards?

If the fader is after the plugin, then it doesn't help clipping. Master fader plugins though are post-fader so in that case it would help.

[atticmike]

Originally Posted by JFreak

If the fader is after the plugin, then it doesn't help clipping. Master fader plugins though are post-fader so in that case it would help.

What about the waves ssl channel / g-eq / puigtech and cla 76 compressors?

[atticmike]

Okay so I really didn't think the waves ssl channel clipped but yeah, it does distort and the puigtec as well.

So red tdm plugins clipped always?

[JFreak]

Originally Posted by atticmike

Okay so I really didn't think the waves ssl channel clipped but yeah, it does distort and the puigtec as well.

So red tdm plugins clipped always?

Yes, stay away from the red. Don't record so hot. If you already have hot tracks, trim them lower, for example by audiosuiting them with Gain, or normalizing to some lower volume.

TDM mixer has 48bit resolution so you don't have to be living on the edge all the time. Your tracks probably have less than 20bit dynamics so you don't gain anything if the peaks are higher than -20dBFS

Hope this helps :)

[atticmike]

Originally Posted by JFreak

Yes, stay away from the red. Don't record so hot. If you already have hot tracks, trim them lower, for example by audiosuiting them with Gain, or normalizing to some lower volume.

TDM mixer has 48bit resolution so you don't have to be living on the edge all the time. Your tracks probably have less than 20bit dynamics so you don't gain anything if the peaks are higher than -20dBFS

Hope this helps :)

I appreciate your concern about my way of recording but I do understand what headroom is and all the necessary preparations / recording levels / losses when printing hot.

To me, this topic mostly revolves around mixing and what happens when you go barking red in a tdm plugin, whether i'd not only clip the plugins intended distortion characteristic but also the tdm engine?

I think i might have to ask a plugin developer who's been around in the PT 7 days.