Channel Strip and Master Fader

[fifty8th1]

Hello again folks...

For bouncing down...I like to add a Stereo Master Fader with Channel Strip Plug-In. However ...even if I just use it to reduce one EQ freq.. The red indicatiors light up showing too much signal....the problem is no matter what I do...I end up losing gain on the bounce. If I just ignore the reds and push too what ever I need ...it doen't seem to hurt a bit.

If I cut back just under the red...I lose several Db in my Mixdown.

I just don't get it. If I increase the Master Fader....it pushes up the Channel Strip signal....and more red. If I lower Channel Strip...it lower the Master Fader in protools. Its like a catch 22.

Thanks for any suggestions.

Fifty8th Street Studio

[fifty8th1]

Thanks Mark for the comments. I liked your tip about Plug-ins being Post Fader on the Master Fader. My Mixes are about 2 Db below 0 when I get to the end. Thats when I add a plugin to the master fader. Usually just to knock out some favorite frequency areas...depending on the song.
As soon as I add the plugin...doing nothing with the plug...it drops my signal. And the Master Fader right there no longer reflect the 888-44. about 3 Db off. The reds start coming on channel strip...The problem is... what ever I do to reduce the red lights... there is nothing I can do to raise up my signal to -2 without raising the flashing reds in channel strip.
Channel Strip and the Master Fader Effect Each Other !!!!! Maybe I'll give those guys a call tomorrow. Oddly enough...I ignored the Reds today and just raised the mix until the 888-24 was at the level I wanted....and I couldn't hear any distortion from it.

Thanks if anyone else has a comment

Fifth8th...

[Mark Haliday]

I can only comment indirectly but it is a fact that digital eq plugins usually don't like high RMS levels (seomething I actually learned from the well documented WAVES operating manual) and that is precisely what you get out of a mix bus, and rarely from a single track.
Try lowering the input of the plugin by 3 db (at least) either by lowering the fader or the plugin input, and then make it up with the output gain.
Bare in mind that plugins are post-fader on master faders.
Beware however that if you add high end you will accentuate peaks and therefore actually *lose* RMS level beacause you will not be able to make up all the gain before going in the red. That is what Waves L1 and L2 are made for : you can inch the level up (I would hope without excess...)and avoid hitting the dreaded red light.

Hope this helps
Mark Haliday

[Mark Haliday]

>>As soon as I add the plugin...doing nothing with the plug...it drops my signal<<

That is probably because (very sensibly) the factory preset you get when you load the plugin is set that way.
>>And the Master Fader right there no longer reflect the 888-44.<<
Obviously since I believe the the level you see next to the master fader is *before* your plug-in. The 888 is after everything.

>>If I just ignore the reds and push too what ever I need ...it doen't seem to hurt a bit.<<
Ah, the joys of clipping...
Well it all depends on what exactly is being monitored by those peak lights : I am not yet familiar enough with this aspect in PT, But I can tell you one thing for sure : Allways prefer putiing afeter channel strip a brickwall limiter (L1/2, output limiter of focusrite + others...)to a straight clipping. You may not hear it where you are monitoring but it might pop up in an ugly fashion in another listening environment !

hope that helps

Mark Haliday

[fifty8th1]

mark..
you must be saying then that if and when there is clipping ....add a L1 (something I have and use ) after......and that would stop any ugly clipping problems later.....interesting... ...right?

John

[Mark Haliday]

All I meant is that L1/L2 is better than straight clipping when it comes to "rounding off edges" of mixes.

BTW you might find this excerpt from the Waves Q10 Manual interesting to read :

<< Under certain circumstances,internal clipping can occur. With high level files (already normalized,or with high peaks),several situations can occur that may cause peaks that did not exist in the unequalized signal.This is true even for filters that have no gain,such as a high-pass filter,or for filters with a cut.The VU meters are output meters and will not show this internal clipping.To show this kind of clipping, meters would be needed between each band of the equalizer.Therefore,if you are using a soundfile with high levels (either normalized or very near 0 dbFS) ,just reduce the Input Faders 3 to 6 dB to allow for internal peaks.<<


Mark Haliday