5.1 to Lt/Rt plug-in options?

[CCash]

I've always used a fold-down technique within Pro Tools to go from 5.1 to LCRS, then go into the Dolby Surround Tools plug-in to make an Lt/Rt. I'm looking for a plug-in that just accepts a 5.1 input, and so far I've found two that may fit the bill:

Surcode from Minnetonka seems to be the obvious choice. Anyone have feedback?

Circle Surround from SRS appears to accept 5.1... but then it creates its own brand of LtRt instead of ProLogic. From what I've heard it's not only compatible, but can sound better as well. Will it decode as expected through a consumer's PL receiver?


While searching, I found this quote from a respected forum member:

"Dolby Surround Tools definitely DOES do the folddown from 5.1 to Lt/Rt. We use it all the time for video (non-film) Lt/Rt's."

Well, if that's true, then I'd like to use the Dolby plug-in, but I'm pretty certain it can't do this. I don't have it installed on my system to check if I can put this plug-in on a 5.1 track. Have I just missed this funtionality?

If you use a plug-in for 5.1 > Lt/Rt fold-downs, what are you using?

[JKD99]

Hey, I'm pretty sure I'm the "respected forum member", thanks for that!
The way it works is through busses. You have your 5.1 printmaster, and it's bussed to a path called 5.1/LtRt Downmix (the bus paths and routing are included in the templates with the plug-in, don't lose them!). From there, the Downmix path is split into 4 sub-paths: LCR to LCR, C to C, Lfe to C, and Ls/Rs to S (mono surround). These paths feed the Encoder side of the plugin (which is on an Aux). The output of the Encoder goes to your Lt/Rt Record Track. The output of the Record track goes through the Decoder side of the plug-in, along with output monitor auxes which route to the speakers. On the decoder side, you have metering and you can switch between Lt/Rt, Lo/Ro stereo, and mono so you can check how your mix is playing in all formats.

Again, the routing setup is kind of convoluted, and if I didn't have the provided template I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be able to set it up from scratch, so I have the foldown template saved on the desktop and I just Import the tracks when I need to make an Lt/Rt. It's really pretty easy.

Hope this helps, good luck!

best,

[pat yacono]

If you get the PLII Surcode Plug, you can set it to do standard Prologic encoding, and it will strap right on a 5.1 channel. I personally like Surround Tools better, but if you want easy, surcode will do the trick.

[quadraphonics]

I sue the DOlby plug in all of the time.. Here is an easy way for it to work..
Split your 5.1 track into 6 mono tracks (Track -> Split into Mono)

Set up an LCRS Bus in your I/O settings

Route the L/C/R/Ls/Rs to this bus and pan appropiately.

Drop the level of the Ls/Rs to compensate for two tracks going into 1 (atleast -3bd, sometimes more if it is a big action film)

Setup a LCRS Aux Input channel. Place the SurENC plug in on it. This will comvert the LCRS to a Stereo Aux. Route this channel to a stereo bus (Encoder Out is what i usually call mine)

Create a new Stereo Audio track with your Encoder Out Bus as its input. Set its output to a new bus (To Decoder is how i call mine)

Create a new Stereo Aux input. Place the SurDEC plug in on it. It will switch from stereo to LCRS. Now. Route the output of this track as your would need to in order to monitor it.

Hope this helps...

[CCash]

Hi Joe, - yes, that's basically how I use it too, except I haven't used the template. I make my own fold-down auxes but it's essentially the same thing. I wanted to make sure I understood you, becasue I'm looking for a plug-in that will accept 5.1 without doing the auxes and routing.

Pat - when you say you like Dolby Surround Tools better, what do you mean? Do you like the sound of the Lt/Rt encoding better?

And thanks Quadraphonics for the reply. Very fitting of your user name to describe LCRS routing.

[JKD99]

Aha. Gotcha. Good luck, and let us know what you decide on

best,

[spigots]

Waves 360 bundle has a plug that will do the fold-downs (LCRS, Stereo, Mono in assorted ITU flavors); I use that across Master 5.1 sub to feed Surround Tools or to check stereo or mono quickly. Not what your asking for, but an alternative to a mass of bussing.

[colinweeks]

i'm curious why the dolby version is preferred over the minnetonka surcode version... the busses is a total hassle (esp without a template setup) and when you're running at near max sometimes its hard to find buss real estate for the LCRS fold-downs. Plus, the minnetonka lets you process offline? i haven't used their product and am looking to purchase either it or the dolby.

thanks.

[JKD99]

Hi Colin,
I haven't used the Minnetonka plugin, so I'm TOTALLY talking out of my posterior here, but I would be leery of creating an Lt/Rt offline if it doesn't give you the ability to monitor and/or destructively punch in if you need to adjust something because of matrix steering issues....
Having said that, I totally agree with you, and I sure wish the Dolby plugin was more self-contained; possibly letting you set the routing from within the plugin itself instead of all the auxes.

[soundeziner]

I sue the DOlby plug in all of the time..

Does the plug-in ever file a counter-suit?