Avid Pro Audio Community

Avid Pro Audio Community

How to Join & Post  •  Community Terms of Use  •  Help Us Help You

Knowledge Base Search  •  Community Search  •  Additional Resources


Avid Home Page

Go Back   Avid Pro Audio Community > Pro Tools Hardware > Pro Tools HDX & HD Native Systems (Mac)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11-27-2017, 01:15 AM
jeroengeerinck jeroengeerinck is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Erpe, Belgium
Posts: 6
Default 192 I/O + HD omni - latency offset

Hello,

I'm combining an HD omni with a 192 I/O on my protools 9HD system with HDaccel cards.
(will upgrade to HDX/12HD in summer next year I guess when I have a break point so I can take some time to set it up).

Now for some time I have discovered that when using the omni inputs together with the I/O, that there is an ugly time offset between the 2 interfaces.

for example at 48Khz with 2 identical mics perfectly aligned I get 50samples of latency (1ms)
on 96 Khz I changes a bit 54 samples.
This was measured by selecting waveforms peak to peak zoomed in heavily.


I also think that at times I measured it to be more but as I'm testing now I can not reproduce other offsets then this. So on different buffer sizes it is also unchanged.


Because I mainly use the i/O for my external preamps I only have this problem when using the omni preamps. but I'd want to use the omni as well for another 8 channel preamp and in that case I would really like to find a solution for this problem.


Biggest question for me. Can this be a normal result of having an older I/O working together with the omni and would the latency be due to slower converters?
Or is there a possibility to calibrate this that I don't know of?
or is my I/O just broken.




big thanks for any ideas.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 11-27-2017, 10:13 AM
Samanthas Dream Samanthas Dream is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: At Home
Posts: 21
Default Re: 192 I/O + HD omni - latency offset

I have an Omni and a 192 I/O and I do not have this issue.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-27-2017, 10:48 AM
albee1952 albee1952 is online now
Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: nashville
Posts: 32,985
Default Re: 192 I/O + HD omni - latency offset

Its quite common for there to be slight timing differences between different brands of converters(I found similar when combining the 003 with a lightpipe preamp). The only time that tiny offset is really going to matter is if you are running the same signal thru both converters I work with a pair of HD IO boxes and a 192 here and have yet to hear anything(certainly the HD IO would be the same as the OMNI). I measured 8 samples of offset between the HD IO and the 192 here.(snare mic thru 2 preamps, 1 thru 192 and other thru HD IO). The preamps are different brands but all analog so I don't know if there is any difference in either preamp's throughput
__________________
Asus x99, Intel i7 6800K, 32 gig DDR4, GeForce 750 Ti, HD/Native, HD IOx2, PT11HD, UAD Quad, preamps from Vintech, Five Fish Audio, Miktek, Focusrite, Chameleon Labs and Midas..............................
https://www.facebook.com/search/top/...0sound%20works
www.capricornsoundworks.com

The better I drink...the more I mix.....

BTW, my name is Dave, but most people call me.........................Dave
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11-27-2017, 12:15 PM
jeroengeerinck jeroengeerinck is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Erpe, Belgium
Posts: 6
Default Re: 192 I/O + HD omni - latency offset

Hi, nice to hear that.
How are they hooked up to your cards?

Is it also an older accel system?
do you use the expansion ports.

I have both interfaces linked to an accel card each.
Wondering if combining them with digilink, and linking this to my accel cord card would make a difference...


Well I suppose 4 samples won't make as big off a problem, but 50 samples is an issue if you're combining more then one mic for the same source. with capsules aligned you still get phase issues....
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-27-2017, 12:47 PM
albee1952 albee1952 is online now
Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: nashville
Posts: 32,985
Default Re: 192 I/O + HD omni - latency offset

Knowing its happening allows you to compensate or alter your work flow to sidestep. IIRC(as I can't get behind my rack), I have the 2 HD IO boxes daisy-chained from 1 port of the card, and the 192 is a homerun with the Digilink>MiniDigilink adapter. The 192 has an extra output card so I use it for 8 hardware inserts and 8 analog inputs from a Midas XL-48 for my drum "shell" channels(overheads, hat and ride go thru an ISA-428>analog to an HD IO)
__________________
Asus x99, Intel i7 6800K, 32 gig DDR4, GeForce 750 Ti, HD/Native, HD IOx2, PT11HD, UAD Quad, preamps from Vintech, Five Fish Audio, Miktek, Focusrite, Chameleon Labs and Midas..............................
https://www.facebook.com/search/top/...0sound%20works
www.capricornsoundworks.com

The better I drink...the more I mix.....

BTW, my name is Dave, but most people call me.........................Dave
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-27-2017, 01:11 PM
jeroengeerinck jeroengeerinck is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Erpe, Belgium
Posts: 6
Default Re: 192 I/O + HD omni - latency offset

thanks.

I will probably test using the 192 I/O straight to the core card, running the omni daisy-chained on the 192.
That's the only other config that I can do with the digilink cables that I have.

But can't do that before next week since I currently have a couple of days of a break in a recording session that needs to be finished so I don't want to go messing with my cards during this session.

Anyway I know I can also just nudge all recordings from one interface to match the other, or put a simple plugih on those tracks adjusting for the correct amount of samples, but honestly it's a pain having to do such manual compensations.
Since I guess it's not really how it should behave, I'm hoping to find a "simple" solution.
__________________
Digidesign ICON D-command 24 / Pro Tools 9HD on a Mac Pro Eight-Core / UAD-2 octo PCIe-card /AVID omni HD (8x8) / 192 I/O analog (16x16) / Focal Trio6 Be
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-27-2017, 01:42 PM
albee1952 albee1952 is online now
Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: nashville
Posts: 32,985
Default Re: 192 I/O + HD omni - latency offset

One "simple" solution would be to sell the OMNI and buy another 192 plus a monitor controller(a used 192 and Presonus central Station would cost less than what you can sell the OMNI for).
__________________
Asus x99, Intel i7 6800K, 32 gig DDR4, GeForce 750 Ti, HD/Native, HD IOx2, PT11HD, UAD Quad, preamps from Vintech, Five Fish Audio, Miktek, Focusrite, Chameleon Labs and Midas..............................
https://www.facebook.com/search/top/...0sound%20works
www.capricornsoundworks.com

The better I drink...the more I mix.....

BTW, my name is Dave, but most people call me.........................Dave
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11-27-2017, 01:50 PM
jeroengeerinck jeroengeerinck is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Erpe, Belgium
Posts: 6
Default Re: 192 I/O + HD omni - latency offset

Well I have a D-command and an Xmon. (got this after the omni).
so the monitoring part of the omni is quite obsolete.
And as I'm looking to put in other preamps soon, the build-in preamps won't be used any more either.

So this might actually be a really good idea.

Only then I might better go for an avid HD I/O rather then the old 192, and then the question remains if this will be resolved.
Don't know if I have to consider the idea that 192 I/O won't be compatible with pro tools anymore in the (near) future?
__________________
Digidesign ICON D-command 24 / Pro Tools 9HD on a Mac Pro Eight-Core / UAD-2 octo PCIe-card /AVID omni HD (8x8) / 192 I/O analog (16x16) / Focal Trio6 Be
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 12-06-2017, 02:17 AM
jeroengeerinck jeroengeerinck is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Erpe, Belgium
Posts: 6
Default Re: 192 I/O + HD omni - latency offset

So thanks for thinking along.
I have found a solution. (? the solution)

Protools HD has this option that says 'compensate for input delays after record pass'.
It is located on the 'input' tab off the I/O window.
This nicely aligns sounds from both interfaces and solves the problem.
Well it makes it possible to the interfaces together, but the issue off course remains that whilst sound checking it'd still be hard to sort out phase problems, by hearing since the alignment can only happen after the record pass, which is off course logic.

Guess I'll need an avid I/O with the same architecture inside as the omni, then this small shift won't happen I presume.
But first I need to get my hands on an HDX + a new PT12HD license.
__________________
Digidesign ICON D-command 24 / Pro Tools 9HD on a Mac Pro Eight-Core / UAD-2 octo PCIe-card /AVID omni HD (8x8) / 192 I/O analog (16x16) / Focal Trio6 Be
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
omni/native latency vs mbox pro latency chrisdee Pro Tools HDX & HD Native Systems (Win) 34 03-30-2012 07:24 AM
Latency Offset Hell diverjon 003, Mbox 2, Digi 002, original Mbox, Digi 001 (Mac) 12 11-11-2008 05:18 PM
How do I set Midi Offset latency? sventvkg 003, Mbox 2, Digi 002, original Mbox, Digi 001 (Win) 5 08-06-2007 04:52 AM
Mbox latency offset plugin? Please help. razorballs 003, Mbox 2, Digi 002, original Mbox, Digi 001 (Win) 1 11-13-2004 01:00 PM
Radeon 8500 latency and offset? Dan Pinder Post - Surround - Video 4 06-25-2003 11:40 AM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:11 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited. Forum Hosted By: URLJet.com