how to extract tempo from an audio file?

[Mt.Everest]

Originally Posted by Keybeeetsss

Just askin, but if u have a click track already on the session what difference does it make to find the tempo???

It seems like people nowadays get so married to tempo finding that they feel they can't go on without it???

U have the click so just go off of that it u need to fix, move, etc...

Hes trying to make the click follow the tempo of an imported audio file (like a mix of a band or something) where the tempo varies alot. So tempo mapping the click to THAT audio file is necessary if he want it to be his master. As in , NOT edit that mix. He want to retain the tempo of that mix, and be able to program or add other music to it, that fits the grid, which would only be possible if you map out the tempo variances of the Master track.

does that answer your question?
MT

[Keybeeetsss]

^^^^He didn't explain it that way... he said he imported a click along with the band stuff...& still, if the band track if there, & they played with a click, then u just follow that which is what I do.. I(just me though) get so annoyed when I go to other studios & the engineer acts like he can't sit down without a tempo so I politely tell them to watch out & I'll do the session...

If u have rhythm.............

[WernerF]

He says he has a click and a drum track. Pretty straight ahead. Just identify beat with the audio click track.

[JGuth]

Another tip is, if you're identifying a lot of beats: set the nudge to say 1/4.
Once you have a few beats id'd now you can use the + key to move cursor one beat forward where you'll be close to the next transient to id on the beat. Doing this you can stay zoomed in and id accurately. you don't need to make a region break, just have the cursor in place and hit command i. If you find a beat that's way off you know to go back and check the previous id.
I prefer doing it by hand because I'm sure it's right. Using beat detictive is too dicey, and by the time I check its work takes just as long and I still don't feel confident.

[elicious]

same here jguth...
however,

If the song has been created without any click track or other time related reference then I am afraid an every 4 bar analysis will not be sufficient.
Been there done that hundreds of times. The only real reliable tempo analysis/extraction from such songs is to do 1, 1/2 or even 1/4 bar analyzing by hand. This could easily take a full day but then you are safe.

i have to disagree with the full day quote above;
i also do many "vibe-it" bands with no clic
and do every downbeat and often every quarter,
and even in a typical 150 bar song
almost never more than an hour.

b.o.l.
e

[Mt.Everest]

Originally Posted by Keybeeetsss

^^^^He didn't explain it that way... he said he imported a click along with the band stuff...& still, if the band track if there, & they played with a click, then u just follow that which is what I do.. I(just me though) get so annoyed when I go to other studios & the engineer acts like he can't sit down without a tempo so I politely tell them to watch out & I'll do the session...

If u have rhythm.............

Its not really clear if he has an audio click or just a click plugin following the tempo. Im assuming he is trying to redo everything from a bands demo mix, and wants to follow the tempo of that, hence the need to create a tempo map. But he hasnt chimed in for a while so we dont know. So now its just a discussion about tempo mapping tips etc.

But as far as an engineer not wanting to start without a tempo- I dont agree cuz it makes things WAY easier to be able to be in grid mode, with a grid down to 1/16th or 1/32nds if you need, so you can copy/paste easily with syncopated parts etc. Rather than eyeing it up with a quarter note audio click.

If thats what you are referring to. Im not exactly sure Im getting what you are saying tho. But I DEF like to have an accurate grid , i.e. tempo map before I get working cuz its just way easier to move things around, esp when using shuffle mode. Its not about things being robotic, but just a mere faster work flow knowing that I can paste things to a 16th note grid line and know it will line up perfectly in reference to whatever is going on with the imported audio track at that moment.

Am I missing what you are saying concerning not really needing a tempo when you have a quarter note audio click?

MT

[Keybeeetsss]

Originally Posted by Mt.Everest

Am I missing what you are saying concerning not really needing a tempo when you have a quarter note audio click?

MT

Yes... I'm didn't say needing a click; what I'm speaking of is pure rhythm with no click or anything...

I did this & still do quite frequently if &/or when there is no tempo set in the DAW; I do live sessions all the time where all songs are on 1 long session which is the way we prefer it...

U simply group the same way of course, when u wanna place something somewhere, simply hit the down arrow(cursor) @ the starting point & there u have it... it u wanna keep going with it, just let it play after hitting the down, & then when end point comes, hit up & ur regions are now highlighted...

But if u(no one in general) don't have rhythm, then yes it would be pretty impossible for that person...

I do it & do it accurately 10x's out of 10 & a half...

Heck it takes longer of a time waste sitting there watching "engineers" try & figure out what the tempo is so as I said, if I'm not engineering but yet producing the session, or record, I politely say "Let me do it, or let me try som'n real quick"...

& its always, "Oh mannn, how did u do that"

We haven't had grids always people so thatz why I can't figure out why people think there is no way to do things without it...

[Oliver M]

Originally Posted by elicious

same here jguth...
however,


i have to disagree with the full day quote above;
i also do many "vibe-it" bands with no clic
and do every downbeat and often every quarter,
and even in a typical 150 bar song
almost never more than an hour.

b.o.l.
e

Then you are not professional enough.
I don't even want to argue as I am skilled enough to know what I have achieved in the past and why I got where I got.
But show me how you create a sync track to a song that has no steady tempo within 1 hour. The goal would be that at least a 4/4 bassdrum runs in sync for 3 - 4 minutes to such a song.

However I did not even reply to the OP as he had a click to sync to but wanted to comment on what Mt.Everest had suggested.


Oliver

[elicious]

Then you are not professional enough.

well that's immature
and not even worth responding to.

But show me how you create a sync track to a song that has no steady tempo within 1 hour. The goal would be that at least a 4/4 bassdrum runs in sync for 3 - 4 minutes to such a song.

i'd be happy to post before and after mixes to show anyone curious
how powerful this can be in mixing,
as well as posting sessions to see the work...

but the math isn't tricky;
as you prolly know
a 4 minute-ish song
might contain up to 150 bars.
using the system jguth and i described earlier
you can do 2-3 a minute
(often, when you get in a groove, and know the patterns,
you don't even need to listen; just use the visuals)
so, that works out to around 50 minutes.
throw in a couplea meter changes,
maybe the drummer turns the beat around,
or the occasional ritard
and it's an hour-ish.

i only wanted to respond so that any one reading this who hadn't tried this
wouldn't be scared off thinking of all the time this must take.

once they see the power of being able to
cut, copy, paste in a song that had no clic (after elasticizing, natch)
or adding samples, loops, or midi and perfectly quantizing those parts if needed...
they'd never not do it.

best,
e

[Oliver M]

Originally Posted by elicious

well that's immature
and not even worth responding to

OK, smartass.

Originally Posted by elicious

i'd be happy to post before and after mixes to show anyone curious
how powerful this can be in mixing,
as well as posting sessions to see the work...

but the math isn't tricky;
as you prolly know
a 4 minute-ish song
might contain up to 150 bars.
using the system jguth and i described earlier
you can do 2-3 a minute
(often, when you get in a groove, and know the patterns,
you don't even need to listen; just use the visuals)
so, that works out to around 50 minutes.
throw in a couplea meter changes,
maybe the drummer turns the beat around,
or the occasional ritard
and it's an hour-ish.

As the rest of your blah blah is obsolete I suggest you take a track like The Rolling Stones - Satisfaction and create a sync track to it so that a bassdrum at 4/4 runs in sync to the entire track. To avoid misunderstandings you must use the original tempo and not treat the song with elastic audio or the like.
Once you achieved this within 1 hour I would be happy to hire you on a regular basis so that I do not waste my precious time with stuff like this over and over again.

If you are willing to show us what you can do, let us know so that we can measure the time it takes you to show us your magic. ;-)


Oliver