Levels too Hot/Noisy - MBox 2 / PT 7.4.2 for Mac

[rockjaws]

Hello,

This is my first post and I'm a new Pro Tools user, so please be patient with any missed information or lack of protocol on my part.

I recently bought a MacBook Pro, running Leopard 10.5, Intel processors, 2 GB RAM. I then purchased an MBox 2 and did the upgrade to Pro Tools LE 7.4.2 in hopes of using for home recording.

My problems is this: The levels are too hot when recording with a condenser mic (or any mic) through the MBox pre-amps, or too low when running line levels from a stereo mix, through a sub mixer.

With the levels that are too hot: I set up 2 AT4050 large diaphragm condenser mics for a live, stereo recording of my band. The phantom power was engaged (as it should be) and the gain levels on the MBox 2 were turned all the way down. I also had the pads on the microphones turned on, as well as the pads on the MBox itself. Even still with these settings, the levels recorded were peaking, clipping and distorting. I even tried running a compressor plug in on both tracks and it did not help. Even when turning the recording gain WAY down (-35 db's) it would clip. The same results occurred when I tried switched out the AT4050's with Shure SM57's.

Since that did not work, I tried running a stereo submix from a mixer, recorded direct through each channel of the MBox 2. In this case, I was getting a level did not clip, but the recorded sounds were distant and faint, and the majority of the recorded sound was very loud headroom/room noise.

What gives? A friends said I may need to install new drivers with the Intel Macbook for MBox 2, yet I could not find a driver update related to that in this forum. Also, I could not find anywhere in the software of MBox to adjust the overal input level while recording.

Can anyone please help? Is it possible I have a faulty MBox2?

Thanks for your time!

[BRH]

Your Band is too loud!

This is typical for a rock band.

You may need to pad the mics down more.

[DigiTechSupt]

If you're a loud band, I could see why you're clipping and using inline pads may be the way to go, however you also say:

Since that did not work, I tried running a stereo submix from a mixer, recorded direct through each channel of the MBox 2. In this case, I was getting a level did not clip, but the recorded sounds were distant and faint, and the majority of the recorded sound was very loud headroom/room noise.

Something isn't right about this. Which mixer are you using? How do you have everything connected to it and how are you routing? What are your faders for inputs and submixes set to? Did you make sure to set the gain on the mic inputs first?

[Woody Woodruff]

Have you tried using the input trim plug-in, that has worked for me with a line in from hot keys. Pasted from the Plug In user guide:

The Trim plug-in can be used to attenuate an audio
signal from –∞ (Infinity) dB to +6 dB or –∞
(Infinity) dB to +12 dB. For example, using a
multi-mono Trim plug-in on a multi-channel
track provides simple, DSP-efficient muting control
over the individual channels of the track.


Another solution is a pair of XLR in-line pads, its a simple "barrel" w/ Male & Female ends. Unless they have changed, they come in preset values such as -10 Db.

-Woody

[docscholl]

Yeah...I agree with the other comments.
You have four ways to control volume:
1 & 2 - On the front of the Mbox, use either the "Input" dial and/or Pad";
3 - Inside the Pro Tools Mix window, bring the fader/s down;
4 - Experiment with the proximity of your mics to the sound source.

[rockjaws]

I appreciate all of the responses! I will make another effort to record with everything padded and the inputs turned way down, along with moving the mics further away from the sound source.

It sill baffles me, as I've used these mics as stereo overhead drum mics in the past, running through a pre-amp and into a Layla sound card, while having no problem getting normal levels and not needing to pad or turn everything so far down.

Yes, my band is loud (and to some too loud!) but I did attempt to control the input level via all 4 sources listed above. In the past I've never had to use every pad, and turn the gain all the way down at every source in order to record a manageable sound file.

It seems a bit odd that all 4 sources would need to be gained so far down.

[rockjaws]

In the attempt to record a stereo submix, the following input stages were used:

2 AT4050 large diapghragm condensers, -10db pads on, placed several feet away from drum and amp sources.
Run through a 4 channel Mackie board with a Mackie digital compressor used on both channels (soft compression in hopes of keeping the levels manageable).
Out of the Mackie board's stereo outs, into the Line-in (TRS) of both channels on the MBox 2.
In this case, we did not use pads and the signals were not peaking, but as I mentioned, the recorded signals basically sounded like room noise with a band 1000 feet away.

Very strange indeed.

I'll keep trying different things! Unless, anyone thinks I maybe have a faulty MBox2.

Thanks again for all of the advice!

[DigiTechSupt]

Before I get into this, I do need to correct a statement:

Have you tried using the input trim plug-in, that has worked for me with a line in from hot keys.

The input trim will NOT prevent clipping at the A/D stage! If you clip the inputs, no amount of software finagling is going to make it not clip. You will end up with clipped audio and the best you can do from there is use a de-clip utility, like ones from Waves or Izotope.

With that said, let's take a look at the current situation...

You said:

Run through a 4 channel Mackie board

Which Mackie board was this?

Did you set up proper gain staging - meaning have the band play and set the input trim on the channels so you're peaking somewhere near 0 on the console meters (using PFL or whatever metering mode the mixer has to view the input level of a certain input)?

Since it seems this mixer has built in effects, is it possible you had a reverb patched in somewhere? That would explain the 'distant' sound of the recorded mics.

I'd turn off all effects for now and see if that helps at all.

[rockjaws]

In response to which Mackie board, levels at zero, etc.

We used a Mackie 4 channel board with no in board or built in effects effects, no outside reverb or delays were used, and only compression inserts on the mic's in their respective channels. We did set up the proper input trim on the board as the band was playing. The line's on the board were not clipping, and were running below 0 db's through the mixer.

I will keep trying!

[rockjaws]

The latest development is now any time I try to record a signal, it wildly distorts and peaks out, while not capturing actual audio signal. This happens when using a condenser mic, a dynamic mic, a direct signal, with pads on and the gain all the way down.

I did realize, while playing bass through direct, that the monitored bass sound was normal and not distorted. Does this mean I'm having a software issue? Would anyone recommend I uninstall Pro Tools LE 7.4.2 and re-install? Or, should I simply install 7.3 and see if that works?

Thanks!