Tracking & Latency

[eledu]

HI!
There was a time when I though I knew everything about latency....
But now I'm getting really fustrated ... so maybe there's something I'm missing.
A couple of days ago I've been tracking.. I keep tracking very nice and tidy, minimalist, as budgets down here are terrible so you better be as quick as you can, while keeping things flowing and sounding as good as you can while running as hell.
But this time I'd liked to "try" a few parallels.... I've sent an Aux to a "Drums Crush" Aux return on Protools HD 12 (I don't remember the exact version number), and put Plugin Alliance Analog Devices Black Box on it (DSP Plugin), but it gave be phasing. Just a little but it was phasey. Tried everithing DSP (there's really not that much to choose to be honest). And everything sounded the same.
Tried with delay compensation on... Delay compensation off...
This rig has a Prism ADA-8XR and an Apogee Symphony as I/O.
Tried to do send only on Prism fed channels, on Sympony fed channels....
Results were always the same.
Is it just the way it is or is there's something I'm doing wrong???
TIA.
Cheers.

[Darryl Ramm]

Why are you not just suspecting the plugin (it may have phase shift vs frequency, I've never used it) and try testing with a similar one in it's place? (delete previous comment: oops not a mastering plugin)

What latency is the plugin reporting to ADC and are the ADC color code telling you it is handling it OK... I think it's supposed to be zero latency, just confirm that is showing up.

If you suspect the plugin you can also try playing with it with the signal generator.

[eledu]

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm

Why are you not just suspecting the plugin (it may have phase shift vs frequency, I've never used it) and try testing with a similar one in it's place? (delete previous comment: oops not a mastering plugin)

What latency is the plugin reporting to ADC and are the ADC color code telling you it is handling it OK... I think it's supposed to be zero latency, just confirm that is showing up.

If you suspect the plugin you can also try playing with it with the signal generator.

Tried even the BF-76 stock...

[amagras]

Parallel processing and ADC during tracking cause phase issues. I wouldn't use other parallel during tracking than reverb and delays. Only on mixing imo

[eledu]

Originally Posted by amagras

Parallel processing and ADC during tracking cause phase issues. I wouldn't use other parallel during tracking than reverb and delays. Only on mixing imo

Whats the point on having a 5k card just to run I/O???

[amagras]

Originally Posted by eledu

Whats the point on having a 5k card just to run I/O???

I hope you can solve your problem.

[mlemos]

Hi. I don't know if this relates to your problem at all, especially since i'm on PT vanilla, but after troubleshooting latency/compensation issues in PT for literally the last couple of years I figured out that having ANY plugins on my master completely screws up delay compensation. And I always have plugins on my master.


Bypassing or even DISABLING each individual plugin does nothing even though PT will report zero latency. So when i'm tracking I completely disable my master (or remove all plugins). I can now comfortably use an input buffer of 64 and delay compensation works as it should. When i'm done I re-activate my master. But if I have so much as one inactive plugin on my master PT's timing is all over the road.


Just some food for thought in troubleshooting your situation. Good luck.

[Darryl Ramm]

Originally Posted by mlemos

Hi. I don't know if this relates to your problem at all, especially since i'm on PT vanilla, but after troubleshooting latency/compensation issues in PT for literally the last couple of years I figured out that having ANY plugins on my master completely screws up delay compensation. And I always have plugins on my master.

Please think carefully about this. it should be obvious this can't work for actual compensation.... and I'm pretty sure it's covered in Pro Tools documentation. But besides not being able to compensate for latency on the master what do you actually mean more... say do you see a zero latency plugin added to the master somehow mess up ADC... and mess it up how?

No DAW can possibly compensate for latency added on an output/master track. ADC works by adding latency to some paths to make them all line up. Anything adding latency to the master is adding latency to everything, there is nowhere else for Pro tools to add latency that would "fix" this. A time travel plugin on the master output would help, but nobody seems to have done that yet... when somebody manages to I expect it will be a really expensive plugin

[mlemos]

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm

Please think carefully about this. it should be obvious this can't work for actual compensation.... and I'm pretty sure it's covered in Pro Tools documentation. But besides not being able to compensate for latency on the master what do you actually mean more... say do you see a zero latency plugin added to the master somehow mess up ADC... and mess it up how?

No DAW can possibly compensate for latency added on an output/master track. ADC works by adding latency to some paths to make them all line up. Anything adding latency to the master is adding latency to everything, there is nowhere else for Pro tools to add latency that would "fix" this. A time travel plugin on the master output would help, but nobody seems to have done that yet... when somebody manages to I expect it will be a really expensive plugin

Hi. I actually don't want to think about it. That's Avid's job. I'm not an under-the-hood guy...just a musician. Everything that you said sounds reasonable but it's not a figment of my imagination. If I have ANY plugins on my master I'll have issues with latency, input buffer and general PT timing while tracking.

It could be system specific but it's spanned 2 computers and 2 interfaces in my case. And troubleshooting DAWs, plugins, etc. is my least favorite thing to do in life. Recording my music is awesome though.

Good luck eledu.

[Darryl Ramm]

Well at most all you need to think about here... and that is just it's *impossible* to compensate for latency on a master. Simple to understand and you'll stop wasting time worrying if it's system specific or not. It's not a mystery and is in the doc, not something that is broken or can ever be "fixed".