Do/Would you give the "Session" file to a customer if he asks for it ?

[protoolsfanatic]

hello and i hope u doing ok !

let's say u own a studio or u work at a studio, so let's say that someone comes to record and mix a track for example... so u mix the track and it's done... then the customer says "i want the pro tools session" (the whole folder of his track)

so... if someone for example uses pro tools.. and has the same plugins that u have... he can see your mix.. and learn from it.. or whatever

so my questions now are :

1) would u give the pro tools session to that customer ? yes? no? and why ? what u will say to him ? what u believe with ur opinion is the best thing to do ?

2) if u DONT give the session, and tell him "i can just bounce all the tracks and give them to u" (for example, 10 channels / 5 minutes track = 50 minutes) , would u charge that 50 minutes that u were doing the bounces ?

3) will u tell him "if u want the session, u need to buy it".

4) is there any industry standard rule about that ? like "never give the sessions" or something like this or whatever ?

thanks all
peace !

[RaySoul]

Originally Posted by protoolsfanatic

1) would u give the pro tools session to that customer ? yes? no? and why ? what u will say to him ? what u believe with ur opinion is the best thing to do ?

2) if u DONT give the session, and tell him "i can just bounce all the tracks and give them to u" (for example, 10 channels / 5 minutes track = 50 minutes) , would u charge that 50 minutes that u were doing the bounces ?

3) will u tell him "if u want the session, u need to buy it".

4) is there any industry standard rule about that ? like "never give the sessions" or something like this or whatever ?

thanks all
peace !

When a client comes to your studio to record a new track, there is a fee for studio time, and a fee for the the session folder(because that's the 'master'). In the old days, a 2-inch 24-track master tape was typically $130. This was on top of your studio-time costs. The client should have the option of leaving the 'original master' with the studio, thereby forgoing the cost.

Most pro engineers will NOT just give their mix session to a client. If the client
wants the session, they give them the tracks, not the mix itself. Except for a 2 track copy(mp3, CD or whatever the format). Back in the day when it was all tape, it was not possible to actually turn over a 'mix' session. Because it literally did not exist. So to me, the same rules apply.

[The Dougfather]

1) would u give the pro tools session to that customer ? yes? no? and why ? what u will say to him ? what u believe with ur opinion is the best thing to do ?

I would not give my customers my pro tools sessions. As far as i'm concerned my techniques, microphones, time, plugins and mix decisions are part of my mechanical copyright and stamp on that production.

They perform, we record/mix, therefore both parties have a vested interest and stake in the production. If it hits the big time you both prosper.....

[CME]

Interesting question. Here's something to add to the debate. What if the "band/artist" brought in the session to begin with? Because that is what I plan to do if I ever get something together enough to take it to a "real" studio.

FWIW I think it shouldn't be a problem for the client to take it home and wouldn't mind a fee for the session folder. I honestly hadn't ever really thought about this though.

[The Dougfather]

What if the "band/artist" brought in the session to begin with?

This would be a remix.

Remember what happened to Jason Nevins, $5k he got paid for that remix and Run DMC pocketed the rest.

[RaySoul]

Originally Posted by CME

Interesting question. Here's something to add to the debate. What if the "band/artist" brought in the session to begin with? Because that is what I plan to do if I ever get something together enough to take it to a "real" studio.

FWIW I think it shouldn't be a problem for the client to take it home and wouldn't mind a fee for the session folder. I honestly hadn't ever really thought about this though.

If the artist brings the session and it's about a mix, then once again, they leave with what they came with. Their original tracks. The mix stays with the mix engineer, and he releases to them a 2 track of the final result. The mix engineer's actual 'mix' is his intellectual property. As I said above, once upon a time it was impossible to give someone a 'mix session'(save for some notes). I don't see why that should change just because technology has changed.

[albee1952]

Interesting thread. It reminds me of the article that Nat Kunkel wrote not to long ago where he gives all his sessions to the client. His philosophy being that the client has paid for it. Also, once you turn it over to the client, you can feel free to delete it all. If the client ever wants to revisit the session, the client is then responsible for its safe storage. Personally I have no dog in this fight. If someone pays me, they are welcome to their session. If they think it will allow them to copy my skills, they are in for a rude awakening as that amounts to coloring by numbers. Its not the tools that make me(or anyone) a good engineer, its my skills with those tools. Give a bad engineer an SSL and a million dollars in outboard gear, and they will probably still make bad recordings. Do what works best for you(that's what I try to do). Just 2 cents worth

[CME]

Originally Posted by albee1952

Interesting thread. It reminds me of the article that Nat Kunkel wrote not to long ago where he gives all his sessions to the client. His philosophy being that the client has paid for it. Also, once you turn it over to the client, you can feel free to delete it all. If the client ever wants to revisit the session, the client is then responsible for its safe storage. Personally I have no dog in this fight. If someone pays me, they are welcome to their session. If they think it will allow them to copy my skills, they are in for a rude awakening as that amounts to coloring by numbers. Its not the tools that make me(or anyone) a good engineer, its my skills with those tools. Give a bad engineer an SSL and a million dollars in outboard gear, and they will probably still make bad recordings. Do what works best for you(that's what I try to do). Just 2 cents worth

Yeah this is kinda my opinion I guess also. And just to clarify my earlier post, I was implying that what was done was just to get the session started and ready for overdubs to be done "in studio" with some better mics and pres. There would actually be very little of the original audio left in the session. I guess I would like to keep the sessions for my own peace of mind knowing I'm responsible for not losing them. Plus I would like the opportunity to try my hand at putting the tracks together. Not that I would do it to cut out the mix engineer. Just to see if I could get it in the same ballpark as the pros can.

[Keybeeetsss]

As what was said earlier, they CAN get the master session which is the files tracked out... Even if they bring to u to mix, they're bringing u the master session... U mix it, give them the mixes in formats needed to be bounced & thatz it...they don't get mixed files... Like what was said earlier, before Pro tools or any other digital factor, the masters were paid for after mixes etc. were done, but how do u think they got the mixes on 2 inch or Da88 or Adat format? They didn't... Just got the Master sessions & that was it... SAME APPLIES with Pro tools...

I require all clients to buy a Hard drive unless they're bringing me something to mix... then u just take the files off their drive, put it on urs, mix away & they have their masters... Done deal...

[RussUK]

Whatever the deal no one gets anything from a session unless they've paid ALL their bill, it's the only insurance I have and you'll be surprised how many people suddenly magic money they didn't have when they need assets.