Compressing after compressing ..

[Scorpio253]

What's up,

I'm listening to my mixes and my vocals just don't turn out the way I want. My vocals don't come out as "fat" and full as I hope for. Would compressing twice fix this? I have the Waves Diamond Bundle, which compressors would be a good chain?

Here is a song I've engineered & mixed, if you have any pointers please do share. (I also dont like how my EQs turn out. Theres a freq that needs to be cut and boosted but I just cant seem to figure it out.) I could never seem to mix my vocals the way I could others

Thanks for your help

Here's the link:
http://www.zshare.net/audio/61663276c5ba2996/

[mindnoise]

HI,

compression is not the only the way to get ´fat´
when the recording is on the´thin´side in the first place.

better check on ´doubling´ ´ducking´ and `harmonizing´



best

[daeron80]

Good song! Nice arrangement, well mixed overall. The vocals sound good. Mainly just turn them up. Or rather turn the track down about 3-6 dB. They're right on the edge of getting swallowed up by the track here and there.

Part of the thin tone problem is overprocessing. They're tuned to death, which removes a lot of the natural vocal tone, replacing it with a near triangle wave. Tuning that much, it's practically vocoded. It also removes the humanity and soul from them, which is probably what most people hear as "fat" in a vocal, psycho-acoustically. The vocs are pretty much dynamically flattened out by compression already (which removes more soul), so there's nothing left for another compressor to do - won't help, might hurt. If I were you, I'd go back to the original vocals, don't tune anything that doesn't sound just plain wrong, and don't use any more compression than they need to sit up in the mix. It's a nice sparse mix - there's lots of space for the vocs to sit in, great job on that.

EQ - it's a matter of taste but I might try a little more in the warm range - 200-400 Hz, and/or a small boost in the mids - somewhere in the 1k to 2k range; just a touch of one or both. It's a nice sound, you don't want to get too far from where they are now. But the tuning has mitigated the formants, and you need to restore some sense of them.

A subtle reverb might fatten them up a little, too, although, considering the intimate nature of the song, you'd have to be careful not to add anything that would pull the vocal back or away from the listener. Right now, they're in your face, which is where they should be in this song, and you don't want to lose that. But maybe a very short, soft, dark room with a longish predelay? Just a touch of it. Something bedroomy. May or may not help.

[albee1952]

Well said. I don't do it for thickening, but I often use 2-3 compressors but I stick with DIGI's compressors as they seem to work with little to no latency. 1-2 BF76's followed by SMACK works. I try to avoid thin sound by using the proximity effect while recording. I set the wind screen closer to the mic and ask the singer to get right up on it. Doubling can sound great if the singer is consistent. You can also carve out frequencies from other instruments to give the vocal some space(your keyboards sound a little thick). With BGV's, I always EQ them around 300-350Hz by pulling about 3-4db about an octave wide.

[SpinningDisk]

De-Esser.

[tha]-[acksaw]

First off, sweet track man. I really liked that. Sounds kewl.

I would agree with what both Daeron and Albee said.

I think the laq of vocal warmth is due to over processing, all across the board. I'm sure its the combination of tuning and compressing that make it kinda flat and lifeless, missing that nice warmth. I would say however, that more often than not, thats the tendency for R&B music. They overprocess and that tends to kind define the sound. When I listen to other R&B tracks I don't ever hear much vocal warmth.

If you don't feel like going back through the vocals before you tuned them, or if you processed on the way into ProTools so there is no way to go back anyway, then Albee had a good suggestion. Start looking at some of the instruments. They sounds a bit heavy in the midrange. Its not a bad thing, but if your looking for a little warmth out of the vocal, you might find that some is getting washed out by the mid range instruments. Something between 400hz and 2k, should get you started.

Solo up the vocals, put and EQ on it, and find a nice spot of warmth that you would like to stand out. Give it a little bump and start finding out which instruments or drums compete at that Freq. Then try and make a bit of room. That might help.

Really good stuff though.

[Murt]

Originally Posted by tha]-[acksaw

Really good stuff though.

I agree. When I heard it I thought why does he need help, it's already pretty good. Anyway I might try some of the EQ tips myself.

[Premo]

I'm looking at your sig and thinking did you record this through the mbox2 mini mic pre?
It sounds too good to be true...

This sounds like top notch converters, pres and processing going on here.

[peppertree]

Rather than boosting lomids, I agree with the de-essing, plus you can turn down the brights a bit with a hi shelf or lopass. That will warm a bit.

The vocoder/autotune sound is very common post-Cher/Tpain, and this is more or less a me-too genre so I wouldn't suggest changing that. Vocal is too loud already if anything.

Harmonic distortion is probably what you are looking for for fat, and there's nothing like analog for that. LA-2As, tape, these are the things you are looking for for that size thing on a vocal. Massey Tapehead does a bit of that but not so good on a vocal.

Stacking compressors in series is common, although often more for coloration and distortion than envelope control. If anything you use less GR when in series that way.

I'll agree the production is quite professional and a good mastering engineer would be able to take that and with mid-side or just a nice touch with analog comp/eq could carry it over the finish line as is.

Oh and I just read the personal inventory thing:

MBox 2 Mini
Pro Tools 7.4 - MPTK

I'll actually challenge an HD/SSL owner to post something that sounds better! If that was done start to finish on an Mbox Mini we already have tools parity.

[Scorpio253]

Originally Posted by Premo

I'm looking at your sig and thinking did you record this through the mbox2 mini mic pre?
It sounds too good to be true...

This sounds like top notch converters, pres and processing going on here.

Lol I really appreciate the feedback, fellas. Yea I recorded this straight through the mbox mini. I'll definitely try some of the EQ tips on my next song. Again, I really appreciate the feedback haha If anyone else has tips please feel free to inform. Also, you could listen to more music online if you'd like. Check me out:

http://www.myspace.com/seanraymusic