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  #1  
Old 03-26-2005, 09:16 AM
anders anders is offline
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Default \"mixing in the box\" question

For those out there who mix and stay in Protools until printmatering, I'm interested in hearing about the workflow. For simplicity let's say a stereo mix. Do you create tracks for sub-mixed D,M and E and print stems directly in PT? I'm sure there are many variations, so just want to get a sense of what's working well in terms of workflow, as I plan an upgrade from TDM MIX to HD as well as a general studio upgrade.

thanks and peace
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  #2  
Old 03-26-2005, 11:01 AM
Andy Hay Andy Hay is offline
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Default Re: \"mixing in the box\" question

Hi Anders,

Here's my usual approach....

Mix dialog to its own LCR stem
Mix BG's and FX to a 5.1 stem
Mix music to a 5.1 stem
Mix foley to a LCR (or 5.0, depending) stem
Mix English Language FX to its own (usually LCR) stem - this includes discernable english walla/group - this was you can supply a foreign distributor with the english language fx as a guide to walla that may need to be replaced in the foreign language.

I re-record all these stems back into tracks in ProTools in my mix session. Up until this point I've been mixing to digital picture (Quicktime), as I print my stems, I usually ditch the Quicktime and slave PT to the digibeta to make sure I'm in sync with picture. Once stems are printed, I import those stems into a new session and buss them together to create my 5.1 master, and my LtRt if using the Dolby plugin.

It's a good idea when printing stems to filter your LFE tracks. Dolby will slap you around if they see anything much above 120Hz on the LFE track.

So, that's one way to do it....

cheers
-andy
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Old 03-26-2005, 09:13 PM
anders anders is offline
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Default Re: \"mixing in the box\" question

Thank you for the response Andy,

Simple logistical question - prior to printing, are your stems bussed to tracks, which you then monitor through 'record ready', or are you monitoring through submasters which are then bussed to tracks when you print?

thanks
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  #4  
Old 03-26-2005, 10:47 PM
emf1138 emf1138 is offline
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Default Re: \"mixing in the box\" question

My approach is much like Andy's. I'm mostly mixing for TV to LTRT stems dragging digital picture (either V1 or quicktime). Here's my layout:

LTRT/Stereo Auxes: BGs, FX, Music, DIA, Vocals (if the episode has a song in it)

I monitor thru the auxes until I'm ready to print. I then bus those to a new set of stereo tracks and print stems back into PT and at the same time those print tracks are being bussed out to my PCM-800 or Digibeta.
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  #5  
Old 03-27-2005, 01:32 AM
Andy Hay Andy Hay is offline
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Default Re: \"mixing in the box\" question

Anders,

I usually just monitor thru my Aux submasters, then open up new tracks when I'm ready to print. For things like LFE filtering, or Stem limiting, I'll use master faders in conjunction with the Aux submaster... Master faders allow you to insert plugins post all fader gain.. on Aux's the limiters are pre-fader.. you could end up clipping if you limit then raise the gain of the Aux fader, especially if mixing loud FX, which may not be apparent to you until you buss that stem to the input of a new stem-print track. I hope that makes sense, it's late, I'm tired.

-a
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Old 03-27-2005, 02:59 PM
filmixer filmixer is offline
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Default Re: \"mixing in the box\" question

On a big movie that has everything maxed out I'll record Stems out to an additional system or hard disk recorder, but for a normal TV show or TV movie I work like emf1138, with audio record tracks mirroring the Stem Auxes, but a little differently. I don't buss the Stem Auxes to the record tacks but instead source the record tracks from the same stem busses. This way, when I'm ready to record, I mute the Aux busses and un-mute the record tracks and go. I also like to be able to switch back and forth between the two, especially during fixes. You need to use Auxes for your Stems while you're working because you won't be able to hear any sound through the audio record tracks locked on input while you're scrubbing and things. I also set disk allocation for the Stems to their own Audio Files folder within the Session folder for the project. This way your Stems are easy to find, copy, backup etc. and not just mixed up with 5,000 other files in the main Audio files folder. When I record the Stems, I always use under "Operations">"Destructive Record" and in "Preferences">"Operations">, "Record Online At Insertion/Selection" and never "Quickpunch". This way you can start the recording precisely at say 59:50:00 or 1:00:00:00 (Academy start), which makes it easier for an Avid or other video editor, or anyone else down the line for that matter, to line up your Stems with no question. You also end up with nice single audio files in the "Stems" audio folder and not a bunch of bits an pieces that will make no sense to anyone that can't open them in the original session that they were created. You can consolidate later but that takes time and more disk space and you still have a bunch of bits and pieces in the folder.
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  #7  
Old 03-27-2005, 10:13 PM
Andy Hay Andy Hay is offline
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Default Re: \"mixing in the box\" question

Hey filmixer,

I do the same thing as far as 'record at Insertion/Selection', however Pro Tools seems to always record just a smidge, maybe a quarter frame or so, before the Insertion - unless of course you are record at the absolute beginning of the session start time - which I've gotten into the habit of lately... have you come across this where there is this extra bit at the beginning of the file? Makes it very annoying when you pull the stems into a new session, line them up on the Grid and the 2pop is a quarter-frame off. I know it's negligible in the long run, but nonetheless a little annoying.

-andy
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  #8  
Old 03-27-2005, 11:52 PM
FlorianE FlorianE is offline
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Default Re: \"mixing in the box\" question

Andy,

"The smidge", I believe, is just the sum of all signal delays which the 2pop accumulates until recorded. Insertion point however is accurate. This is easy to see if you look at it in your mixing session.
To avoid the embarrassment of pops not aligning with frame borders: after a mix is definitely OK'ed, re-spot the mixfile so that the pop lines up correctly, trim region start accordingly, and 'compact' with zero handle.

Cheers
Florian
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  #9  
Old 03-28-2005, 09:01 PM
filmixer filmixer is offline
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Default Re: \"mixing in the box\" question

>have you come across this where there is this extra bit at the beginning of the file?<
No. If I zoom the view in to the sample level, my files start right at 1:00:00:00. I've also never had a file I've sent to a Avid or Final Cut HD bay not spot properly or drift.

>Makes it very annoying when you pull the stems into a new session, line them up on the Grid and the 2pop is a quarter-frame off.<
I never use Grid mode, but if you spot the files using "Original Time Stamp" or Control drag them onto the timeline with the cursor at the exact code you want, they should spot perfectly. As far as your 2 pop, if it's late, was it on a dialog track that had a number of plugins and maybe routed through a couple of bussing chains to it's stem track? A little latency might have cropped up.
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  #10  
Old 03-28-2005, 11:23 PM
Andy Hay Andy Hay is offline
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Default Re: \"mixing in the box\" question

If my seession starts on the hour, then yes, the files will obviously be recorded right on the hour.. but if my Insertion point is inside of the session then my stems end up with "pre-roll" if you will - they have about a quarter frame of info before the Insertion point.

Yes, you are correct, system latency because of plugins etc is responsible for the 2pop being slightly late - I'm aware of this and compensate accordingly.. but my initial question was and still is... does anyone else end up with the recorded stems beginning slightly before the Insertion point? This has happened a couple of times on a particular system at a particular studio and I'm trying to figure out why this happens.

thanks
-andy
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