Another IK Multim-Media Group Buy

[clausiii]

Originally Posted by musicman691

So you install Custom Shop; that doesn't mean it's running all the time but only when you want to buy a plugin. Custom Shop is a separate entity from the plugins. I got TRacks Classic and through Audio Deluxe got the upgrade to TRacks Grand for way less than buying Grand outright.

You can run the plugs without seeing anything forcing or urging you to buy ANYTHING.

Yes, it's just a "browser" for their products.

[mesaone]

Originally Posted by musicman691

You can run the plugs without seeing anything forcing or urging you to buy ANYTHING.

Originally Posted by clausiii

Yes, it's just a "browser" for their products.

I get that. I know I don't need to have CS open in order to use the plug-ins... But the Custom Shop and plug-ins are not entirely separate: individual plug-ins purchased in the CS will not run in Pro Tools without CS installed. It's not just a browser and delivery vehicle. That's irritating to me. I don't particularly want a storefront application that acts as a licenser, and I dislike that the CS uses proprietary "currency".

This is my personal preference, and it is enough to turn me off of T-Racks products. I'm voting with my wallet. Like I mentioned, this stuff won't necessarily discourage everyone, but it is worth knowing in advance before you plunk down any money.

[musicman691]

Originally Posted by mesaone

I get that. I know I don't need to have CS open in order to use the plug-ins... But the Custom Shop and plug-ins are not entirely separate: individual plug-ins purchased in the CS will not run in Pro Tools without CS installed. It's not just a browser and delivery vehicle. That's irritating to me. I don't particularly want a storefront application that acts as a licenser, and I dislike that the CS uses proprietary "currency".

This is my personal preference, and it is enough to turn me off of T-Racks products. I'm voting with my wallet. Like I mentioned, this stuff won't necessarily discourage everyone, but it is worth knowing in advance before you plunk down any money.

CS is no different than any other elicenser program. Hey at least you don't have to deal with iLok with these plugs!

[mesaone]

Originally Posted by musicman691

CS is no different than any other elicenser program.

I think it is. Usually the licenser is only a licenser. If the shop was not compulsory (and dealt with real currency, not IK funny money) it would be a non-issue.

For anything there will be growing pains, and there has to be a replacement now that companies are moving away from hardware dongles... I just think there is a happy medium between iLok and this digital distribution showcase that CS. In for a penny in for a pound, I suppose.

I do have to admit the ability to download a demo device in-application is probably a nice feature for a lot of people. Propellerhead has this going for them, but it's a much clumsier implementation than IK's Custom Shop.

[Glenjb]

Originally Posted by mesaone

I do have to admit the ability to download a demo device in-application is probably a nice feature for a lot of people. Propellerhead has this going for them, but it's a much clumsier implementation than IK's Custom Shop.

Sidenote on ik demos: The CS app has to be open to use your demo and if you forget to open CS first it has a pretty violent burst of noise every 2 seconds or so. I had my headphones on & turned up too loud when I realized this. It was like a punch to the face and I had no idea where it was coming from. I didn't read the fine print though which is clear enough... DOH!

[PatriotsBiker]

The big question for me is value. Assuming NI and Softube get their acts together and/or the Blue Cat MB-7 stays with us as promised, I've got a lot of these covered. Most specifically, the compressors.

For examples, is their '76 any better than Avid's or NI's, or is it pretty much a redundancy? Is their SSL copy any better than NI's? That leaves their multi-band plugs, and I'm beginning to think really seriously about a couple of the Blue Cat bundles. (Energy and EQ Paks, IIRC) A bit more money, but I've already got part of it paid for with the upgrade from MB-7)

So, if any of yooze have tried both and say these IK entries are a good deal better, lemme know?

[musicman691]

Originally Posted by PatriotsBiker

The big question for me is value. Assuming NI and Softube get their acts together and/or the Blue Cat MB-7 stays with us as promised, I've got a lot of these covered. Most specifically, the compressors.

For examples, is their '76 any better than Avid's or NI's, or is it pretty much a redundancy? Is their SSL copy any better than NI's? That leaves their multi-band plugs, and I'm beginning to think really seriously about a couple of the Blue Cat bundles. (Energy and EQ Paks, IIRC) A bit more money, but I've already got part of it paid for with the upgrade from MB-7)

So, if any of yooze have tried both and say these IK entries are a good deal better, lemme know?

I have the NI Vintage Compressors bundle and the Manley emulation bundle from NI as well as the SSL emulations NI separated from Guitar Rig 5. And I have IK's CS Grand bundle. The NI stuff is pretty decent (most of it's done by Softube) but they are processor hogs and the graphics are pure oatmeal (boring as all get out). And some of the stuff Softube did for these plugs comes nowheres what the real hardware is or what's in the IK stuff.

Been working with the IK CS grand bundle for a while now and it's been solid. I like the multiband stuff they do which until Blue Cat did MB7-2 was the only real game in town. I also have MB7-2 and some other Blue Cat stuff (mostly their analysis plugs) and they've been solid as well. Sad to say I haven't used MB7-2 for much more than hosting plugs in PT11 as I find the multiband possibilities in IK's stuff easier to use and get a sound up and running quicker. Where MB7-2 has an advantage is if you want to use different compressors in different bands. I will admit that had some fascination for me and I did try it like that and got great results but again, for ease of use in multiband IK comes out on top. And of course none of the NI does multiband (nor is it aax 64 bit ).

If you're talking about 1176 emulations I put it like this: IK, NI, Avid. NI's SSL emulations are lifeless and dull for me, especially the NI/Softube/SSL Bus Compressor. No bottom end as it gets the life sucked out of it. I don't have the IK version as that's not part of CS Grand.

[PatriotsBiker]

Originally Posted by musicman691

I have the NI Vintage Compressors bundle and the Manley emulation bundle from NI as well as the SSL emulations NI separated from Guitar Rig 5. And I have IK's CS Grand bundle. The NI stuff is pretty decent (most of it's done by Softube) but they are processor hogs and the graphics are pure oatmeal (boring as all get out). And some of the stuff Softube did for these plugs comes nowheres what the real hardware is or what's in the IK stuff.

Been working with the IK CS grand bundle for a while now and it's been solid. I like the multiband stuff they do which until Blue Cat did MB7-2 was the only real game in town. I also have MB7-2 and some other Blue Cat stuff (mostly their analysis plugs) and they've been solid as well. Sad to say I haven't used MB7-2 for much more than hosting plugs in PT11 as I find the multiband possibilities in IK's stuff easier to use and get a sound up and running quicker. Where MB7-2 has an advantage is if you want to use different compressors in different bands. I will admit that had some fascination for me and I did try it like that and got great results but again, for ease of use in multiband IK comes out on top. And of course none of the NI does multiband (nor is it aax 64 bit ).

If you're talking about 1176 emulations I put it like this: IK, NI, Avid. NI's SSL emulations are lifeless and dull for me, especially the NI/Softube/SSL Bus Compressor. No bottom end as it gets the life sucked out of it. I don't have the IK version as that's not part of CS Grand.

The SSL stuff that NI uses in Kontakt has left me wondering on many occasions why I cannot get a good feel for SSL. I've read of many other sources and forums that it is supposed to be on par with a couple of the big boys, so I'm afraid to spend anything on another version. So that increases the curiosity some.

I agree that some of those NI/Softube plugs are serious hogs. Especially on to-buses. The Passive EQ and the Vari Comp sounded really well together, but it sank my old machine. Same, too, for one or both of the new Classic Reverbs that shipped with the new Komplete 9 Ultimate.

I have grown to like the NI/ST 2A compressor, and have developed a good feel for the Avid BF76 compressor. If the NI/ST 2A compressor is not on par with the IK version, then the IK version must be really sweet. Otherwise, it's just duplication.

I have since tried and purchased about 1/2 of the Softube line-up from them including the Summit Grand Channel and the Tube Tech channel, and cannot rave enough about them. I mean, these things sound superb. If they pop up with another huge sale and you can test-drive them, try out both of the channels. You'll be impressed. Especially if you had any positive thoughts about the NI passive EQ. This one is quite a beast, and that's not saying anything bad about the NI/ST entry. I did email with one of the ST guys and he said the two are totally different EQs, despite looking like they have similar controls.

I've also gotten along fairly well with the stock Avid Channel Strip and use it on individual tracks all over the place. I've never really pushed it with that one, just track clean up and notching a bit of EQ in or out as needed. I've heard on this forum that the Channel Strip sounds like a SX 160 compressor emulation is behind it. I have no idea if this is the case.

Having a compressor loaded up for the multi-band plugs does sound nifty. That's what I don't get with the MB-7, and I have to go to a VST compressor to get one. Not a big deal seeing how I installed the VST versions of NI and Softube plugs, but this is where the thought of going with the power pak kind of got planted.

And lastly, I bought the 40-pack from Plug & Mix when they had that sale. I've got some duplications when considering that package as well, but they do seem to vary in sounds different from one company to another. Somewhere I just gotta stop this nonsense. Hard to pass up a good deal, though.

Thanks for your thoughts.

[Glenjb]

Originally Posted by PatriotsBiker

but they do seem to vary in sounds different from one company to another.

When they model plugins after analog gear like an 1176 for example, they could have 10 of the same units and they all might sound a little different from each other. There's not going to be one "correct" version in plugin form. I just use whatever sounds good on the particular track. Bf76, ni vc 76, ik black 76 waves cla76 or whatever- softube fet compressor the list goes on. Again, whatever sounds the best to me for the material.

And you can demo all the plugins in the group buy for 3 days each and see what sounds good to you!

[musicman691]

Originally Posted by PatriotsBiker

The SSL stuff that NI uses in Kontakt has left me wondering on many occasions why I cannot get a good feel for SSL. I've read of many other sources and forums that it is supposed to be on par with a couple of the big boys, so I'm afraid to spend anything on another version. So that increases the curiosity some.

I agree that some of those NI/Softube plugs are serious hogs. Especially on to-buses. The Passive EQ and the Vari Comp sounded really well together, but it sank my old machine. Same, too, for one or both of the new Classic Reverbs that shipped with the new Komplete 9 Ultimate.

I have grown to like the NI/ST 2A compressor, and have developed a good feel for the Avid BF76 compressor. If the NI/ST 2A compressor is not on par with the IK version, then the IK version must be really sweet. Otherwise, it's just duplication.

I have since tried and purchased about 1/2 of the Softube line-up from them including the Summit Grand Channel and the Tube Tech channel, and cannot rave enough about them. I mean, these things sound superb. If they pop up with another huge sale and you can test-drive them, try out both of the channels. You'll be impressed. Especially if you had any positive thoughts about the NI passive EQ. This one is quite a beast, and that's not saying anything bad about the NI/ST entry. I did email with one of the ST guys and he said the two are totally different EQs, despite looking like they have similar controls.

I've also gotten along fairly well with the stock Avid Channel Strip and use it on individual tracks all over the place. I've never really pushed it with that one, just track clean up and notching a bit of EQ in or out as needed. I've heard on this forum that the Channel Strip sounds like a SX 160 compressor emulation is behind it. I have no idea if this is the case.

Having a compressor loaded up for the multi-band plugs does sound nifty. That's what I don't get with the MB-7, and I have to go to a VST compressor to get one. Not a big deal seeing how I installed the VST versions of NI and Softube plugs, but this is where the thought of going with the power pak kind of got planted.

And lastly, I bought the 40-pack from Plug & Mix when they had that sale. I've got some duplications when considering that package as well, but they do seem to vary in sounds different from one company to another. Somewhere I just gotta stop this nonsense. Hard to pass up a good deal, though.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Something I found out is the stuff Softube did for NI were done on spec for NI and not their normal (ST's) work. Witness what they did when the SSL emulations were broken out of Guitar Rig 5 - the gui totally changed with a whole new layout to boot.

The multiband compressor is one of the reasons I like the IK stuff - all done for you. Although the flexibility of MB7-2 and vst plug compressors can be neat but a bit of work to set up.

I can't seem to get along with the Avid Channel Strip. Biggest problem I have is getting a good visualization of the eq curves in the display - getting all bands to show correctly at one time. Must be missing something.