Question/doubt about Pro Tools 10 Native 32 I/O limitation

[estudiosnx]

Hi all.

We know this has been PROBABLY discussed dozens of times, and we have read some answers out there, but we post this question because we are facing a problem that we think that is not 100% as other times explained/requested, in the mean that what we are experiencing is not what we have been told that should happen….

We have a system composed of:

Mac Pro 2010 Quad Core 2.8 16 GB RAM
Pro Tools 10 Native
Control24 (possibility of 16 inputs)
MOTU 2408MKIII&MOTU 1224 connected via a MOTU PCI-424 interface (possibility of 32 inputs & 24 outputs)
APOGEE AD16 (possibility of 16 inputs)

Everything wired and working ok, we launch Pro Tools 10 Native. We are aware of the limitation of Pro Tools 10 Native to 32 I/O available when you have not the Complete Production Toolkit (an add-on that right now we do not have)

When Pro Tools 10 Native is launched SURPRISINGLY we are capable to “activate” in the I/Os menu each and every input and output that we have available in our system, more than 32 I/Os for sure.

Our question: is Pro Tools 10 Native limited to 32 inputs AND 32 outputs or the limitation is 32 I/O channels counting together inputs and outputs? (we think that the obvious answer is "32 counting together Inpts and Outputs")

And depending on the previous answer: If the limitation is of 32 I/O channels counting together inputs and outputs, … WHY can we activate them all in the I/O menu, thus exceeding the limitation? Is it really going to work or when we start assigning tracks to inputs and outputs we will reach a point where no further assignments will be available?

Thank you very much for your time, and sorry for making questions that probably are answered under some point of view….but in no one of the cases that we have read before we have found any user that IS CAPABLE of activating all the inputs and outputs in the IO menu exceeding the limitation, all the posts refer always to “No more inputs are available”…when we find them available….or at least we can activate them...

Thank you.

Pedro
Estudios NX

[Darryl Ramm]

The limit is 32 IO total (input and output).

I bet you did not try actually using past 32 IO.. Actually assign the IO to the track.

Of course the Control 24 does not actually have any IO it is just preamps and a control surface so does not count.

I assume you intend connecting the apogee to the MOTU via ADAT.

Darryl

[estudiosnx]

Thank you very much Darryl.

You are right, no we still did not use all the IOs, we are starting with PT10 configuration and we are just "taking contact" with it, so it seemed strange to us that we could activate them all.

So I bet that although I can initially activate them all I won't be later able to really use/assign them, ... or I will have performance and/or stability problems if I do so....

Again: thank you very much.

Pedro
Estudios NX

[nst7]

Actually, it is 32 in, and 32 out on regular PT10.


Also, the Complete Toolkit does NOT allow you to expand your I/O past that. Just want you to know before you spend money on that.

To get more than 32 I/O, you must use an HD system. Either HD Native (64 in, 64 out), or HDX (64 in, 64 out per card, up to 192 total).

Also, something to be aware of, there's a limitation in the way PT10 is configured right now. It uses the first 32 ins and outs that show up, with no way to pick and choose. This may or may not be fixed in the future.

[estudiosnx]

Originally Posted by nst7

Actually, it is 32 in, and 32 out on regular PT10.

OOooopps.....sorry, I am now "dazed and confused" hehe...on previous thread I understood that it is 32 channels counting together ins and outs, and in order of appearance on the control panel.

Are you telling me now that it is 32 ins and 32 outs, so 64 possibilities of assignation in total???

I am confused.....

Originally Posted by nst7

Also, the Complete Toolkit does NOT allow you to expand your I/O past that. Just want you to know before you spend money on that. To get more than 32 I/O, you must use an HD system. Either HD Native (64 in, 64 out), or HDX (64 in, 64 out per card, up to 192 total).

Thank you for warning, we will take this advice seriously into account....

Originally Posted by nst7

Also, something to be aware of, there's a limitation in the way PT10 is configured right now. It uses the first 32 ins and outs that show up, with no way to pick and choose. This may or may not be fixed in the future.

Yeah...that eventually sucks in case you have one of the channels broken or misworking or if you want to use one set of INs instead of others that are "further" in the list.....


Thank you!!!!

[nst7]

I'm 99% sure that's the case, as there have been people on these forums talking about it. There are very few interfaces that have that much I/O, so it's sometimes hard to properly test out.

I'm pretty sure someone on Gearslutz was talking about using the Apogee Symphony IO via USB and having no problems.

Hopefully someone can jump in here.

But the wording in the reference guide for regular Protools is virtually the same as for HD Native systems, which definitely get 64 in, 64 out (in fact they talk about using the HD MADI, which is exactly that).

[John_Toolbox]

I'm 99% sure that's the case, as there have been people on these forums talking about it. There are very few interfaces that have that much I/O, so it's sometimes hard to properly test out.

Some interfaces have a configuration app that allows you to disable or enable specifc I/O, and when you do this, the interface will display a lower number of channels, and then the actual i/o you have assigned will fit into the 32 I/O limitation. Not sure which ones do or don't have this capability specifically, so YMMV.

I think the problem is more of a reality when you use multiple interfaces, and cascade them using the manufacturer's config app. The config app doesn;t allows allow you to re-order the i/o, so if you have 2 interfaces that have 8 channels of ADAT on channels 17-24, and try to use both of them to get 16 channels of ADAT, you will not be able to access the ADAT channels on the second interface since they are now technically 41-48, unless the interface's configuration app allows you to re-assign them.

Honestly though, if I needed that many I/O, I would not want to bother with any 3rd party interface and all of that confusion over I/O routing. HDN or HDX make so much more sense in that situation for numerous reasons.

[mixwell]

PT10 Native via Core audio and ASIO allows up to 32 Inputs and 32 Outputs from the Driver used.

PT10 HD Native PCie and HD Native Thunderbolt allow's up to 64 Inputs and 64 Outputs.

PT10 with HDX allows 64 I/O per card/stackable.
Each of the HD TDM cards allow 32 I/O per card/stackable

[estudiosnx]

Thanx Adam!! And thanx all the rest!!!!

We will surely try and inform you back....we have the inner feeling that we are going to be able to set up 32 ins AND 32 outs. ..that's still only a feeling, though.

BTW: for what it matters we are using a MOTU 2408MKIII, a MOTU 1224 and an APOGEE AD16 as I/O devices, and at least the MOTU's are capable of a great great flexibility on what is managing inputs and outputs BEFORE the DAW. We are not really "cascading" them since the 2408MKIII and the 1224 both "end" on a PCI-424 interface (which somehow make them "a unique" interface both together!!) and the Apogee AD16 will be connected also to one of the both MOTU's ....so... we are pretty happy with MOTU software!!!

And, ...yeah you are right....if you really need that much number of IOs you'd better don't bother with 3rd party devices...BUT we always want to try before spending all the budget in the "known" solution...we've been several years (more than 10 actually) "playing" with Cubase and Windows XP adn we have discovered very very tricky configurations that were supposed not to work and actually worked fine for years, project after project,.....so we wanna give a try to imaginative solutions before we go for an HD or HDX nahahahahaha!!!