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  #1  
Old 12-12-2003, 09:46 AM
Dave Lang Dave Lang is offline
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Location: Victoria, BC, Canada
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Default Upgrade Path - HD or LE?

Hey,

Anyone else considering dumping TDM in favour of LE when they upgrade their Mix systems?

I love ProTools on a Windows machine, but I'm getting frustrated with the TDM software. It seems to me that the LE systems are working better right now and they are a lot cheaper.

- ASIO / Wave drivers work better on LE
- RTAS can be used on AUX tracks instead of buying more process cards
- did I mention cheaper?

An 002R with an Apogee converter is looking good...

Comments? Am I overlooking something?

Avoiding work on Friday morning,

dave

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  #2  
Old 12-12-2003, 03:04 PM
nikki-k nikki-k is offline
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Default Re: Upgrade Path - HD or LE?

Hi!
I am totally in love with my HD Accel rig.
Just so you know how biased I am

RTAS is not limiting for me in anyway, except when it comes to the Master Fader.
If I have an RTAS I must use for groups, I simply sub an Audio track for Aux, and RTAS away.
This will become more annoying with the release of the VST-RTAS wrapper, but my love of TDM surpasses those annoyances easily.

With Accel (I currently have Core, Accel, Process, soon to be Core, Accel, Accel, Process), I can get enough instances for audio recording/mixing at 44.1k/24bit that I do not need to use RTAS unless a plugin is RTAS only.

The 32 track limit with LE irritates me to no end. If they would even go to 64 tracks I would be MUCH happier. In this day and age, I simply do not any reason for this ,imit other than a marketing choice, and in this case it seems more like a punishment for not buying TDM than anything. Just my 3 cents And I still use an LE rig in addition to my HD rig, so it must not be pissin me off too much huh? Hehehe!

As far as ASIO/Wave drivers go, I dont find myself using them much, except for the occasional jaunt thru Nuendoland.

Cheaper yes. The single most damning point for TDM. However, this also comes down to what the owner of the system is using it for.
If in an actual commercial studio, the cost is eaten rather easily if the business has enough clientelle to support the purchase. I use mine for my own personal use, but I have no use for a car, and sold it to buy my rigs If I ever make money from what I record, that will simply be a bonus to an already (mostly) enjoyable experience and outlet for my creative side.

Did I stray far enough? Hehhee! All that said- yeah, the 002r+convertor is a sweet ride IMO. If the 32 track limit is ok for you, and you make a regular sacrifice to the gods of digi so as to obtain a higher or no limit on tracks, great move!

I dont envy your dillema. Really hard choice.
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nikki k
Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
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  #3  
Old 12-12-2003, 08:29 PM
Brandonx1 Brandonx1 is offline
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Location: Los Angeles
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Default Re: Upgrade Path - HD or LE?

Why not buy just a audio media IIi card and the software? For two hundo you got PTLE and four out's. What more could you ask for for so little?
Peace,
Brandon
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Vibe Audio Post, Inc.
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Custom Build CPU, HDX 1, Omni, 192 I/O Digital
S6 M10 24 fader
Satellite Mac Pro, HDNative, 192 I/0
Black Magic HD Extreme
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  #4  
Old 12-13-2003, 03:29 AM
Rock_Artist Rock_Artist is offline
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Default Re: Upgrade Path - HD or LE?

Well,
I'll try to review it from a LE based vision.
I currently own x2 MBoxs & x1 002R.
Still I'm now thinking all the time on switching to a d24 or something in a reasonable price range.

The only true limit as Nikki mentioned in the LE series is the track count. and it's even worse as you have "absolute" voices. 32tracks or nothing. no Dynamic voice allocating.

I've already came accross premixed session and with todays growing needs 32tracks is limiting through the big sessions.

Another limit I've seen is when you try to mix "out of the box" with LE you're limited to top of 18 tracks or worse when I took the rig for live recording (the option to run it all on my laptop is really great) and again when it's huge show you're limited in tracks.


The RTAS power of current CPUs is worth something as HD|1.5 . Once I've tried (and this was with old PTLE5.3.1/Digi001/2.4Ghz Pentium 4 to HD|2) and an LE session took the entire core card. since then Firewire is resource taker (002R) and 6.1 is another "native power decrease".

To conclusion:
I'm willing to trade my 002R rig with a 24mix .

With right usage of RTAS I believe TDM can run better. just keep the RTAS power for disk tracks.


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  #5  
Old 12-13-2003, 02:53 PM
Dave Lang Dave Lang is offline
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Default Re: Upgrade Path - HD or LE?

Yeah, I'll probably go HD as well. Not running out of DSP running plugins on the AUX channels will be nice.

Just wish the TDM software would get updated more frequently. The ASIO / WDM stuff gets in my way when I want to use other software, or check out sounds. Alt-tab from ProTools to some other software would be great.

I've only earned about $10K Canadian from the studio this year. Mostly record my own stuff. But it grows every year, so we'll see. People seem happy.

Thanks for helping me procrastinate........


take care,

dave

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  #6  
Old 12-13-2003, 10:15 PM
nikki-k nikki-k is offline
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Default Re: Upgrade Path - HD or LE?

Hi!
I am seriously hoping that Digi really throw some people on getting the software real tight, and adding some long desired features to the XP side that the McDudes have.

I guess I am one of those few using only Pro Tools for the main part. I dont have a current need to alt-tab out of PT for anything audio at this point, except for the rare occasion of previewing a CD before extracting to a drive instead of ripping the whole thing, or part, and then using import to preview. I wonder if releasing the hardware for ASIO or WD use in background would even be possible...

Wow- only 10k. That barely covers the bacon and MooseGuard for a single year, eh?

With the pending decrim laws up there (stupid USA and their threats...grrr) I am ready to move
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nikki k
Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
On the other hand, you have different fingers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikki-k View Post
Sometimes ya just gotta put your tongue on the 9V battery just to see what all the fuss is about.
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  #7  
Old 12-21-2003, 11:42 AM
dfusion dfusion is offline
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Default Re: Upgrade Path - HD or LE?

Quote:

The only true limit as Nikki mentioned in the LE series is the track count. and it's even worse as you have "absolute" voices. 32tracks or nothing. no Dynamic voice allocating.


I'm not sure what you mean, but in LE 6.1.1 you have virtual tracks. You can have 128 audio tracks but only 32 playing at any one given time.
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  #8  
Old 12-22-2003, 05:03 AM
froyo froyo is offline
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Default Re: Upgrade Path - HD or LE?

Hello. Dfusion he is referring to the way voices work in TDM systems. If they worked the same in LE, we could basically work with more than 32 tracks. The way they work in TDM, you can assign any track to any voice. You can also assign many tracks to one voice. So you could assign 40 tracks of percussion to two voices, and they would only take up two tracks so to speak, because only two voices were being used. You would have 30 left over. In that example you would be in a 70 track session.
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  #9  
Old 12-24-2003, 11:48 AM
SSRJazz SSRJazz is offline
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Default Re: Upgrade Path - HD or LE?

Now THAT would be nice in LE...
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  #10  
Old 12-24-2003, 12:56 PM
nikki-k nikki-k is offline
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Default Re: Upgrade Path - HD or LE?

Hi!
(she)
One huge problem with LE is the lack of an easy way to do comps late in a session.

Since voices cannot be manually assigned, there is no way to use the method TDM uses, which is to create a number of audio tracks, assign all to same voice, and then either drop regions here and there on each, or open different playlists on each, and then use the "topmost track (for that voice) determines audio played" rule. Topmost same-voice track will play until no material is found, and then the next lower track of same voice containing material will be *voiced* next. Similar to the multi-lane editing on other apps (Nuendo, PARIS, etc). Intuitive, and pretty easy to use. Unless you are using LE...

Then again, RTAS lives a life of total freedom with LE. With TDM, RTAS is the drug-addicted son who never amounted to anything, spent years in jail, good for nothing, smelly, deformed, bastard, ^%$#&%%&$... Unless it is being used as a single track only, post-recording insert fashion of course. Then it is treated a little better...
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nikki k
Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
On the other hand, you have different fingers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikki-k View Post
Sometimes ya just gotta put your tongue on the 9V battery just to see what all the fuss is about.
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