Is TDM on the way out???? (sorry, lame opener)

[necjamc]

Originally Posted by OliJ

Mmmm, strange. I'm still on PT8 on an HD system. So either things have changed, but I thought that this effect of the Hardware buffer on native plugin delay was unavoidable , or there is some problem in the repoting of plugin delay in whichever PT9 version your using. Perhaps some one from Digi ..oops Avid may be ale to confirm this ? I'd be interested to know

I also tried this on 8.0.1 m powered on my G5 (living room studio :)) and got the same thing

[OliJ]

I didn't think version 8 M-powered had ADC ?

[necjamc]

Originally Posted by OliJ

I didn't think version 8 M-powered had ADC ?

No I was just (command click) on the level to see the reported latency and ping tested and it stayed the same on 8. And on 9 it was the same as well.

[OliJ]

Actually this depends on the plugin. Just did a quick test and none of the Digidesign RTAS plugins had any inherent delay, so the effect isn't evident. Nor was it with Waves IR verb. However with Altiverb and Izotope RX it is. I'd always thought this happened on all RTAS plugs, just the delay was so short on most that it didn't matter. It may be time for me to change Reverbs. Damm ... I usually start a session with at least two instances of Altiverb too

[necjamc]

Originally Posted by OliJ

Actually this depends on the plugin. Just did a quick test and none of the Digidesign RTAS plugins had any inherent delay, so the effect isn't evident. Nor was it with Waves IR verb. However with Altiverb and Izotope RX it is. I'd always thought this happened on all RTAS plugs, just the delay was so short on most that it didn't matter. It may be time for me to change Reverbs. Damm ... I usually start a session with at least two instances of Altiverb too

Ah see I used waves Rcomp, maxim, tlspace,. I also stacked plugs but they are all waves, mcdsp, and digi. maybe that is why. I'm gonna try waves JJP and see if they are the same. they have around 500-600 samples of delay I think. Worth looking into.

[OliJ]

Quick addendum. I was wrong about Waves IR1, it does behave just as Altiverb. Initially when I instantiated it, it had no IR loaded. The moment I loaded one there was the delay that increases with buffer size, albeit a 30% less than Altiverb

[SDDP]

Originally Posted by ggegan

I don't see TDM going away. I would hope there would be some more modern cards coming out, but for me as a feature film rerecording mixer, I am using all the processing power of an HD6, plus a significant amount of RTAS. I can't use too much RTAS because it eats up too many voices and one HD6 is only barely adequate for FX on about half the features I mix. On the other half, two HD6 rigs is barely enough DSP power and voices. The dialog mixer needs an HD6 as well. Unless Avid is planning on abandoning post production mixing, which I seriously doubt, current native systems are not sufficient. Maybe Avid will be redesigning native systems to handle the needs of people like me, but for now, they don't cut it.

I could be wrong, but my hunch is when the next (or even the one after the next) Macpro comes out with something like 24 cores & up to 64GB Ram and PT going 64 bit. At that point it would be as or more powerfull than an HD6?

As far as everything, plug in, ADC, voices, etc.
It's inevitable that the MAC will go higher and higher on cores and ram.

[Firechild]

Originally Posted by SDDP

I could be wrong, but my hunch is when the next (or even the one after the next) Macpro comes out with something like 24 cores & up to 64GB Ram and PT going 64 bit. At that point it would be as or more powerfull than an HD6?

As far as everything, plug in, ADC, voices, etc.
It's inevitable that the MAC will go higher and higher on cores and ram.

Again...It´s not about DSP power but stability, latency and tracking issues.

My old machine from 2008 8 core 3.2 ghz is like a HD10 ( or even more ) system if you compare how many RTAS vs TDM instances you can run.

I can run almost ten times more RTAS plugins compared to TDM versions on my HD2 PCIe system.

A current 12 core 2.66 Mac Pro is like a HD40 system if you compare RTAS vs TDM counts.

But still I won´t go native for many years. I love the way you track with the TDM mixer and the stability when using mainly TDM plugins in your sessions. Coming from Logic Native I can only say that was a joke from a professional point of view. For example you have to play through the song a couple of times to have Logic "learn" how to spread the load on available cores. The first run will always halt playback with CPU overload message somewhere in the song.

[Iker]

In my opinion, yes, but there is still a good run left for TDM... I own an HD6 on a magma chassis and a MacPro 12 core, I run a healthy amount of VI through the Vienna Ensemble Pro to break the 32bit limit and boy this machine can churn numbers!!! (4GB on PT, 4GB on a VEP32 and the rest of my ram with VEP64. aprox. of course!)

The TDM part of my system is vital for my workflow using VIs, I've tried not using TDM plugs and the levels of power consumption can go to places where you have to pay close attention of what are you going to do next... (reverbs will take a toll and I use a 128 buffer), The mac can handle it though, however, this means to me that someone out there will be able to go way further and halt their system.

There is still room to go, PT has to go 64bit first and all 3rd party developers too.

My personal guess is a completely new DSP solution with a "TDM emulation mode" for compatibility with older plug-ins.

that could be a way to go, but even more processing is needed for that.

16 processors and 64bit app? I'd say we are there and we might expect official statements.
24 processors? game over, TDM emulation would be a blessing but hey, you really think Avid would be so kind? yeah...cows fly too.

Have anyone noticed that AVID refers to TDM systems as "legacy"?
Have anyone noticed that AVID considers an 'Upgrade" to go from TDM to HD native?

Or, save 54% by trading in your legacy PCI-based Pro Tools system (Pro Tools 3, Pro Tools|24, Pro Tools|24 Mix family, Pro Tools|HD PCIx)

PCIx TDM system legacy????? I admit the core is less than stellar but will render the rest of the PCIx acccel useless which are as powerful as their PCIe counterparts...
something to think about...
Or it could be another OOOPS product of their dismal web design...

Don't take me wrong...I Loooooove my TDM system and will use it for a long, long, long time, they will have to stop supporting the hardware in their software for me to think moving somewhere, and thats why they might not like that business model. lol

[midnightrambler]

Originally Posted by Iker

Quote:
Or, save 54% by trading in your legacy PCI-based Pro Tools system (Pro Tools 3, Pro Tools|24, Pro Tools|24 Mix family, Pro Tools|HD PCIx)

Would you mind providing a link to where you saw this? This is the first I've heard of it....