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  #61  
Old 03-17-2018, 02:42 PM
BScout BScout is offline
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Default Re: hdx aaxdsp is dying

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Originally Posted by Raoul23 View Post
So my HD6 Rig would be equivalent to 1 card ??


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Quick rundown:

In terms of voices, 256 voices with one HDX card while max TDM was 192 voices. HDX max 768, TDM max 192.

In terms of i/o, one HDX card is equal to two TDM cards (64 i/o support on HDX, 32 i/o support on TDM). 256 max i/o HDX; 160 max i/o TDM

In terms of dsp, HDX has 1536 time slots while TDM had 512 time slots. So 1 HDX = 3 TDM. In pure performance, Avid adverts (due to the chip change to TI from Motorola, clock speed differences, and increase in total chips per card) 1 HDX = 5 TDM but not all that power is available to plugins. So 1 HDX = 3 TDM is more the approximation.

In terms of performance: HDX is 32 bit float processing/64 bit float mixing (same as native -- one of the big architectural changes; also what happens with offline bounce); TDM was 24 bit fixed processing/48 bit fixed mixing (HD was fixed 48bit mixing/non-HD was 32 bit float which raised the question if, in actuality, the non-HD engine was a better mixer than the TDM mixer.)
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  #62  
Old 03-17-2018, 04:22 PM
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Emcha_audio Emcha_audio is offline
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Default Re: hdx aaxdsp is dying

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Originally Posted by TNM View Post
difference is for 3K the others have inputs.

HDX is just a dsp card. A noisy one. For anyone working in one room there are a lot of additional costs involved.

Regardless they are not 3K here.. more like 4.5

And i would need 2 as i need the voice count. So..

2 HDX cards, HD software and interfaces.. it would be 20 grand AUD for what I need.

Plus the iso box for 4K.

24K lol.
Or you can run cables to a closet and put your computer and the cards there. If you're on a mac of a pc that has thunderbolt, you could run a thunderbolt chassis and put that chassis in the closet.
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  #63  
Old 03-17-2018, 06:13 PM
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Stephen Bond Stephen Bond is offline
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Default Re: hdx aaxdsp is dying

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Originally Posted by Raoul23 View Post
Not running out of steam and would never invest in a soundgrid system. Just thinking of future options to stay current. At the mo I really love my TDM Rig, but we all always want the latest and greatest

Is it recommended to have a 2 card HDX system at least to get a decent track count??
I had a TDM Mix rig back in the day. If you want to stay current, then you'll need to move on for sure. Pro Tools today has moved on significantly and so have AAX plugins.

So the main question is how and why are you using your TDM rig? When I had mine it was to access the TDM only plugins, Pro Tools TDM only features and because native power was limited. Others chose TDM because they needed plenty of I/O which was limited in LE.

These days there's huge amounts of power in the average computer by comparison. Pro Tools is no longer constrained in the hardware department so unless you need more than 32 channels of I/O then PT vanilla would suffice.

HDX owners will quote latency but I've never had an issue running Pro Tools LE or vanilla tracking bands running multiple monitor mixes. The odd plugin you need to watch out for but they are few and far between. To be honest there's no real need to run something like Waves LinMB on channels or busses, at least until the mix.

Unless you are going to always run huge sessions then do you really need HDX? There's a good number of A list pros that seem to be quite fine running big mixes on laptops, often with a UAD in tow.

What's there to miss save the yearly expense of $1000 for Pro Tools?

Stephen
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  #64  
Old 03-17-2018, 08:13 PM
WernerF WernerF is offline
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Default Re: hdx aaxdsp is dying

What’s there to miss? The answer is latency if you want any plugin on the master buss. This is in the spirit of mixing as you go when tracking a band or whatever. This really needs to be considered because quite a few of us Pro Producers use this method in order to inspire anyone having to overdub onto the existing track. This method worked without question on an analog based system. Why should we all except the fact that it no longer works in a Native based system. I mean really, why are we all so ready to take a step backwards? Really??
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  #65  
Old 03-17-2018, 08:56 PM
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Stephen Bond Stephen Bond is offline
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Default Re: hdx aaxdsp is dying

Once again, latency is brought up but I don't understand what the problem is in native!

I've run native for years. These days I can run a 128 buffer, track guitars, basses, vocals, drums etc via several plugins without any noticeable latency. I send several Auxes to the rooms for musicians as I mentioned.

I can put plugins on my busses, master as required. Generally I have the SSL Comp+Kramer Tape+Massey Tape Head and either Black Box HG2 or Maserati GRP on the master. I never notice any latency when tracking guitars/bass in the control room through all these either.

As I mentioned, the only two I avoid are Waves LinMB and also GW MixCentric as both make the latency untenable.

So once again, what am I missing? The latency certainly isn't the issue in native.

Stephen
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  #66  
Old 03-18-2018, 12:53 PM
TNM TNM is offline
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Default Re: hdx aaxdsp is dying

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Originally Posted by Emcha_audio View Post
Or you can run cables to a closet and put your computer and the cards there. If you're on a mac of a pc that has thunderbolt, you could run a thunderbolt chassis and put that chassis in the closet.
only on mac here, *that* i have decided to keep as a constant. I decided against getting into the whole windows 10 thing and spend the extra 2k on an imac pro, have 4 proper working thunderbolt ports, slightly less power but still way more than I am used to, and that beautiful screen. it makes sense now before the nex OS comes out, as i never want to go above HS.

As far as cupboard, i wish was that easy. I have converted the walk in robe into a vocal booth. It's a small WIR but perfect for that purpose.. i've put acoustic tiles and a nice little set up in there.. that noise from Tbolt chassis/HD i.o/HDX cards would definitely be picked up in vocal recordings.

Right now things are a bit complicated anyway cause of the unexpected spanner thrown in the works with my American BF. If i end up living in Georgia where he is, it's a big house and i'll have like a basement area to myself.. I could even commercialise it and have clients like the old days, not bands of course, but guitarists and vocalists, as well as do professional mixing. I'll definitely be able to isolate the noise there very easily, so it all depends on how my 3 months this coming June goes, our first actual "live together for extended period" visit.

I have to get the imac pro before say september, regardless, because i do NOT want the new OS as it's losing all 32 bit compatibility. I will never give up my 32 bit reFX plugins that I have wrapped with "32 lives".. I still use them in every song to this day.

This whole HDX thing has been really difficult for me to decide.. I know that getting it instantly solves my issues of low latency monitoring through PT itself, and sidechain ADC..
However i still can't find anyone to tell me how native VI's perform setting the HDX buffer no higher than 128.. if you happen to use VI's and HDX please let me know, it would be so appreciated! This is the last missing link I need to know about.

As far as plugins, i am more than thrilled with what AAX DSP already offers...

One last question, do aax dsp plugins hit the sound before A/D like apollo console or after? If after, then they are strictly monitoring, no point printing with them really.
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  #67  
Old 03-18-2018, 01:02 PM
TNM TNM is offline
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Default Re: hdx aaxdsp is dying

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Originally Posted by ejsongs View Post
1. Modulation plugs
2. Character eq’s
3. Reverbs

In all fairness though, it is really a force of habit of always going for a dsp plug-in vs a native. Muscle memory I guess. When I need a native plugin on a track that has dsp plugin on it, it is fairly seamless for the most part. I guess I trust aax dsp plugins more for accurate delay comp reporting.

For craps and giggles I wanted to see how well it would go if I tracked thru a uad plugin. I had to lower buffer as if I were on a native rig to either 64 or 128 to do it where it was playable but it worked.

It was a guitar efx chain.

1. Trim
2. Cla 1176
3. H delay
4. Valhalla verb
5. Uad la 2a
6. Either Phoenix or hornet harmonics

All native...except trim and maybe Phoenix. Not sure if I would dream of doing this on another system including UAD
1) modulation plugs.. reel tape flanger, excellent. Moog phaser, excellent. Chorus I have to look up but surely there's something? I think we are all too spoiled for choice.. the fact is that if one were forced to use only those modulation plugins we could still get superb recordings done. Don't forget that you can happily use any native effect once signal is recorded and you are not live monitoring anymore, cause the latency penalty won't matter then.

2) character EQ's, well the joe meek stuff? The avid pultec? Softube summit and passive active etc? I don't see an issue there.. also mcdsp channel with all those EQ flavours

3)revolver, revibe, space, reverb one
A real shame softube does not support DSP with tsar.. that's a bummer. Same with BX Room and alliance.. big mistake there.. that's a *great* reverb.

Reverb seems where the biggest sort of "variety" hole is. Luckily what's there is good enough for monitoring purposes.. even d verb is in some situations when used on a bus in conjunction with a good EQ. But yeah, it seems it's avid flavoured or a convolver.. not much choice.. if there's any verb I am missing please let me know :)
No one really prints with reverb though do they.. but for live setups that are not recorded, they might not cover all needs, true.
I remember when i looked at AAX a couple months back, reverb was the most obvious hole for me, i originally presumed bx room and tsar were dsp.. then i realised i was wrong.. if they were, i'd be thrilled.
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  #68  
Old 03-18-2018, 01:57 PM
ejsongs ejsongs is offline
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Default Re: hdx aaxdsp is dying

I miss pitchblender and soundblender and I hate the fact that Soundtoys is now only native along with autotune.

The old bombfactory stuff that you mentioned is so old that I rarely thing about it. The bomfactory 670 is cool but there is other stuff I would use before the jo meek and moogerfooger stuff...personally speaking.



Ej
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  #69  
Old 03-18-2018, 02:03 PM
TNM TNM is offline
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Default Re: hdx aaxdsp is dying

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Originally Posted by ejsongs View Post
I miss pitchblender and soundblender and I hate the fact that Soundtoys is now only native along with autotune.

The old bombfactory stuff that you mentioned is so old that I rarely thing about it. The bomfactory 670 is cool but there is other stuff I would use before the jo meek and moogerfooger stuff...personally speaking.



Ej

well that sucks about autotune.. true.. they have even made a realtime UAD version.. an effect like that should exist in DSP.. I wonder how much latency using autotune live would add or the new waves tune live int he dsp montoring environment. I gave a lot more than just bomb factory. Softube's AAX DSP line is full of character comps and EQ's. MCDSP too.
I just also realised that metric halo haloverb and sonnox reverb are dsp also, so.. that covers verbs just fine.
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  #70  
Old 03-18-2018, 02:36 PM
ejsongs ejsongs is offline
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Default Re: hdx aaxdsp is dying

Yeah but no neve or API aaxdsp...big hole here.

Ej
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