Eucon 3.2.1 not working, but 3.1.3 is fine?

[O-WYO]

Originally Posted by Kyle Splittgerber

Hi Scott, As I mentioned before LAGG has never been supported.

Hi Kyle,

Yes, you’ve stated several times that LAGG has never been supported. However, you treat it as though “Thou shalt not support LAGG” came down from Mount Sinai, carved in stone.

If it was supported and we disabled it, then we'd be taken something away that we said was qualified.

The fact is LAGG and VLAN worked. When you blocked them, you took away something that already worked - whether or not they were “qualified”. Why not just allow EUCON to connect to them?

The problem is that if we unblock LAGG what happens when those users with LAGG have issues?

How many users with LAGG issues have you guys encountered? Users running LAGG should be technically savvy enough to troubleshoot any related issues, themselves and/or with the OS devs, network hardware manufacturers, etc. Besides, issues with the OS or networking hardware are outside Avid’s responsibility.

Its not a supported configuration so we can't offer any troubleshooting, bug fixes, etc.

You guys shouldn't have to provide troubleshooting, bug fixes, etc. for issues that are not directly related to EUCON, EuControl, the Artist Series hardware, or the recommended single, dedicated, hardware network.

Simply make it a policy that users are free to try whatever Ethernet topology they wish, but Avid will not provide network-related troubleshooting, etc. for systems that are outside the recommended network topology. (However, support for non-network connection problems, such as with DAW software, would still be provided.)

So, go ahead and allow EUCON to connect to all the network service interfaces (i.e. “bondx”, “vlanx”, or even “enx” (OS X WiFi). If a user has success connecting through LAGG, VLAN, WiFi, etc., that’s great. If not, then, it’d be their responsibility to troubleshoot or reconfigure to Avid’s official network topology.

EuControl can connect to USB>Ethernet adapter, but not LAGG, because USB>Ethernet adapter is a single network interface. We also don't support connecting multiple Artist Surfaces to multiple network interfaces because EuControl needs to be looking at a single network interface. Architecturally, that is what is required.

A LAGG interface is a single network interface. A VLAN interface is a single network interface. In addition, on a layer 2 managed switch, a VLAN interface can be dedicated for EUCON on it’s own subnet. This essentially creates the same thing as Avid’s recommended single, dedicated hardware network. All that's needed is to allow EUCON to connect to the VLAN network interface on the host computer. The OS and switch do all the rest. (And, yes, VLAN runs over LAGG. It's all handled downstream of EUCON).

Is getting a second USB hub an option so you can free up a USB port for a USB>Ethernet adapter for your switch>surfaces?

I’m willing to try reconfiguring my USB connections. A couple questions:

- What USB 2.0 to Ethernet adapter(s) do you recommend?
- What USB 2.0 to Ethernet adapter(s) should I avoid?
- What unmanaged switch(es) to you recommend?
- What unmanaged switch(es) should I avoid?

And, last but certainly not least - and this is important!

- Is it Avid’s goal to re-enable the “Shift+Touch Fader=0dB” feature on the Artist Mix or is that feature gone for ever?

Thanks!
Scott

[Kyle Splittgerber]

Hey Scott,

I am just trying to make it clear we can only recommend and support a qualified configuration because that is what ensures the best user experience. I'm sorry that something you used to use is no longer working and I'm aware that you want it back, so we'll definitely consider it if we get a lot of complaints. But keep in mind that on Mac, LAGG is only available on Mac Pros. So, we are talking about a subset of a subset of Mac users (Mac Pro users who choose to use LAGG). Since 3.2 has shipped this is the only thread I have seen regarding LAGG not working (for you and John King). My assumption is very few users use it. If there are other threads or users using LAGG, please speak up.

There are many configurations we have to support and any time we add a new supported configuration it takes time and resources to test that new config, bug fix, and generally sustain the engineering effort. We want to invest our efforts in a way that benefits the maximum number of users. I realize your point is to let the user connect however they want, and if they don't follow the supported configuration then its on them, not Avid. While logically that makes sense, the philosophy here is to make things as automatic as possible so the user has the best experience with EuControl. If we don't do that and something doesn't work with their config, it make is more difficult to deduce if the problem is with EuControl or their network setup. And 9 times out of 10, EuControl gets blamed when something doesn't work. Regardless of whether the problem is actually network setup, OS, or DAW. If we can make it so those problems are much less likely to occur in the first place by requiring certain configurations, then we move towards ensuring a better experience as opposed to just hoping the user follows our guidelines.

With the 3.2 release, we worked hard to fix as many of those issues as possible so connectivity was reliable. To clarify, part of those improvements required EuControl to look at a single physical network interface. LAGG is not a single physical network interface, so that is why its not currently supported.

The good news for you is that you have a solution, which is the USB>Ethernet adapter. I'd suggest getting the Apple one as that is what we test with. Regarding switches, you are pretty much free to get whatever you want. I don't know of any that specifically don't work, but if anyone reading this thread has insight here please chime in.

The "Shift+touch fader = 0db" bug is logged and on our backlog. We definitely want to get that one fixed for you guys, but I can't provide any ETA.

Thanks,

[O-WYO]

Originally Posted by Kyle Splittgerber

Hey Scott,

I am just trying to make it clear we can only recommend and support a qualified configuration because that is what ensures the best user experience. I'm sorry that something you used to use is no longer working and I'm aware that you want it back, so we'll definitely consider it if we get a lot of complaints. But keep in mind that on Mac, LAGG is only available on Mac Pros. So, we are talking about a subset of a subset of Mac users (Mac Pro users who choose to use LAGG). Since 3.2 has shipped this is the only thread I have seen regarding LAGG not working (for you and John King). My assumption is very few users use it. If there are other threads or users using LAGG, please speak up.

There are many configurations we have to support and any time we add a new supported configuration it takes time and resources to test that new config, bug fix, and generally sustain the engineering effort. We want to invest our efforts in a way that benefits the maximum number of users. I realize your point is to let the user connect however they want, and if they don't follow the supported configuration then its on them, not Avid. While logically that makes sense, the philosophy here is to make things as automatic as possible so the user has the best experience with EuControl. If we don't do that and something doesn't work with their config, it make is more difficult to deduce if the problem is with EuControl or their network setup. And 9 times out of 10, EuControl gets blamed when something doesn't work. Regardless of whether the problem is actually network setup, OS, or DAW. If we can make it so those problems are much less likely to occur in the first place by requiring certain configurations, then we move towards ensuring a better experience as opposed to just hoping the user follows our guidelines.

With the 3.2 release, we worked hard to fix as many of those issues as possible so connectivity was reliable. To clarify, part of those improvements required EuControl to look at a single physical network interface. LAGG is not a single physical network interface, so that is why its not currently supported.

The good news for you is that you have a solution, which is the USB>Ethernet adapter. I'd suggest getting the Apple one as that is what we test with. Regarding switches, you are pretty much free to get whatever you want. I don't know of any that specifically don't work, but if anyone reading this thread has insight here please chime in.

The "Shift+touch fader = 0db" bug is logged and on our backlog. We definitely want to get that one fixed for you guys, but I can't provide any ETA.

Thanks,

Hi Kyle,

Thanks for your detailed reply. I do understand where you're coming from, but you guys are making a mountain out of an ant hill.

To beat the dead horse only once more, LAGG and VLAN are available to EUCON as single network interfaces, along with the other network interfaces on a host computer. LAGG and VLAN are handled by the host OS, so there's nothing that needs to be done to EUCON, other than not block EUCON from accessing them.

LAGG is like iSCSI or RAID or PCI/SSD storage - it's all handled by the host OS and/or dedicated hardware. EUCON/EuControl doesn't need to be specifically programmed to work with iSCSI, RAID, PCI/SSD, etc. Likewise, EUCON shouldn't need to be specially programmed to work with LAGG or VLAN. All EUCON needs to do is be able to select the LAGG or VLAN network interface.

I'll give the USB=>Ethernet adapter a try. However, it's very unnecessary - both in cost, time, and hassle.

While were on the subject, since Avid is so "paranoid" about Ethernet and apparently experiencing so many related support problems, why not contract with Cisco to build you an Avid-branded Ethernet switch that also provides PoE (Power Over Ethernet) to the Artists Series? It'd eliminate or minimize a number of issues and have additional benefits. It would:

• Establish an Avid-qualifed, single, dedicated, hardwire network.
• Minimize support costs
• Get rid of the multiple power supplies, which are a pain in the ass. This would eliminate:
  • The need to provide yet more 120VAC outlets,
  • Having to find a place to stow the transformers, and
  • Dealing with way too short VDC power supply cables.
• In addition, such a PoE switch would solidify the Artist Series and other EUCON-based products as complete, turn-key systems.

I realize the above - particularly the PoE feature - would be targeted for the next generation Artist Series; however, being able to disable PoE would allow the switch to be used with current production models.

Thanks again,
Scott

[robertg]

PoE is a great idea.

[CharlotteMichele]

I had issues with 3.2.1 then went back to 3.1.3 but still have the same problem. It appears that the Artist mix is no longer talking to the pro tools session although it appears in the Eucon panel. I have tried un linking it, then re linking it but the only thing that gets everyone talking again is to restart both the computer and the Artist Mix. This is very exhausting. I set it to a unique IP address as suggested elsewhere in this post but that still doesn't prevent this seeming "time out" from happening. Any advice?

[O-WYO]

Originally Posted by CharlotteMichele

I had issues with 3.2.1 then went back to 3.1.3 but still have the same problem. It appears that the Artist mix is no longer talking to the pro tools session although it appears in the Eucon panel. I have tried un linking it, then re linking it but the only thing that gets everyone talking again is to restart both the computer and the Artist Mix. This is very exhausting. I set it to a unique IP address as suggested elsewhere in this post but that still doesn't prevent this seeming "time out" from happening. Any advice?

Double-check your Pro Tools settings, to ensure EUCON is still enabled as an interface. (I'm not on Pro Tools, so I can't help you there.) If that doesn't work, try downgrading to EUCON v3.0.1. That's where I had to go. Some are still running v2.7.1. Best of luck!

[Southsidemusic]

Yes good point. Go into settings and choose peripherals and make sure the enable Eucon box is checked, that gets un-checked sometimes when updating and ir trashing preferences and databases.

[wersi]

Hi guys,
I have the same problem on my computer. i´m using osx 10.9.5, pro tools 11.2.2 on a mac book pro end 2014. i just bought a new artist control. eucontrol 3.1.3 see the artist control, 3.2. and higher doesn´t see it. it seemed connected with my Broadcom NetXtreme Gigabit Ethernet Controller. for connecting i use a thunderbolt hub from belkin which splits the thunderbolt port in some usb ports etc. and the ethernet port which i´m using. could this be the problem? do i really have to connect the artist control with an ethernet-usb adapter directly to my computer or is there another solution that i´m be able to use my thunderbolt hub?
thanks for help.
all the best, wersi

[rgericke]

Kyle,

Add me to the list of users who utilizes Link Aggregation. There is no technical or technological reason why in this day an age your software should be blocking this. It's pointless and causes more harm than good. You leave professional users a choice between quality transfer speeds and using hardware that you make janky by imposing ridiculous limitations.

Best Regards,
Richard

Originally Posted by Kyle Splittgerber

Hey Scott,

I am just trying to make it clear we can only recommend and support a qualified configuration because that is what ensures the best user experience. I'm sorry that something you used to use is no longer working and I'm aware that you want it back, so we'll definitely consider it if we get a lot of complaints. But keep in mind that on Mac, LAGG is only available on Mac Pros. So, we are talking about a subset of a subset of Mac users (Mac Pro users who choose to use LAGG). Since 3.2 has shipped this is the only thread I have seen regarding LAGG not working (for you and John King). My assumption is very few users use it. If there are other threads or users using LAGG, please speak up.

There are many configurations we have to support and any time we add a new supported configuration it takes time and resources to test that new config, bug fix, and generally sustain the engineering effort. We want to invest our efforts in a way that benefits the maximum number of users. I realize your point is to let the user connect however they want, and if they don't follow the supported configuration then its on them, not Avid. While logically that makes sense, the philosophy here is to make things as automatic as possible so the user has the best experience with EuControl. If we don't do that and something doesn't work with their config, it make is more difficult to deduce if the problem is with EuControl or their network setup. And 9 times out of 10, EuControl gets blamed when something doesn't work. Regardless of whether the problem is actually network setup, OS, or DAW. If we can make it so those problems are much less likely to occur in the first place by requiring certain configurations, then we move towards ensuring a better experience as opposed to just hoping the user follows our guidelines.

With the 3.2 release, we worked hard to fix as many of those issues as possible so connectivity was reliable. To clarify, part of those improvements required EuControl to look at a single physical network interface. LAGG is not a single physical network interface, so that is why its not currently supported.

The good news for you is that you have a solution, which is the USB>Ethernet adapter. I'd suggest getting the Apple one as that is what we test with. Regarding switches, you are pretty much free to get whatever you want. I don't know of any that specifically don't work, but if anyone reading this thread has insight here please chime in.

The "Shift+touch fader = 0db" bug is logged and on our backlog. We definitely want to get that one fixed for you guys, but I can't provide any ETA.

Thanks,