Avid Pro Audio Community

Avid Pro Audio Community

How to Join & Post  •  Community Terms of Use  •  Help Us Help You

Knowledge Base Search  •  Community Search  •  Learn & Support


Avid Home Page

Go Back   Avid Pro Audio Community > Pro Mixing > Artist Series

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11-02-2011, 03:21 PM
Lipmania Lipmania is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 17
Default Why The Command 8 is better than the Artist Control/Mix

You may think I'm crazy, and I am, but Avid Artist Control/Mix combination just isn't quite there yet in terms of functionality. It does some complex functions really great and easy once you get it going, but it's the simple functions/design that are really lacking on these units.

If I'm wrong on any point, please let me know. I'm not here to argue. I'm just here to possibly point out some things that could be much better to create more user friendly unit.

The Command8, while very simple, is just that. It's simple and it works. I've never had any problem with connections, speed(extremely responsive), and basic functionalities. It's a great workhorse of a controller. But, after looking into it and hearing great things, my studio decided to give the artist series a try. It's been a hassle to get going. Being an Avid product now, I would expect these products to work seamlessly with Pro Tools(HD10). However, this isn't the case. Working at mixing facility, we use a lot of show/hide memory locations, automation, inserts, and the like. With all controllers, I always expect it to work as a console would work.

Over the past week or so, here's a list of what we've gathered could be much better about these units.


1. Banking. Can't select the track in Pro Tools you want to be on the first fader w/o it auto-banking in multiples of four. Quick Key function: Shift-Control-Select Track. Should automatically make the selected track first fader, or Scroll into View. I have an 10 year old CM labs motor mix that doesn't this lightning fast. Why can't the Artist Control/Mix?!

2. Speed. When changing show/hide markers, unit is slow to respond in comparison to the very quick Command 8. You may say, "well, it's only 2 seconds you have to wait...". Why can my "ancient" command 8 work MUCH faster? and this is really annoying when trying to do things on the fly real fast.

3. Multiple User Setups?? Where are they?

4. Switch the Green "On" switch with a Red/Orange "Mute". Seems backwards. Switch the Red solo button to Green/Yellow solo button, LIKE EVERY CONSOLE ON THE PLANET...This should mimic the colors I'm seeing in Pro Tools, not backwards.

5. Eucon Automation modes should be one touch function. Shouldn't have to go though the global "Do to Selected" or "Do to All" functions first.

6. When using show/hide markers, after using bank/nudge functions, the faders don't reflect the first track on screen when switching to another show/hide memory location. It stays offset by the number of tracks you nudge/bank.

7. Assigned tracks get cleared when hiding them and showing other tracks. Even when tracks are brought back on screen, the assignment is cleared.

8. Fader values only step in 1db increments when over the number 10. This is absurd. You guys boast 10bit fader movements but can't move from -10.0 dB to -10.5 db!?!?! Ridiculous. And they didn't program this b/c there isn't room on the screen to notate the numbers. My track names go past the numbers by at least 4 or 5 characters.

That's all for now, and that's just the tip of the iceberg for things I'd like to change. I only mention these things b/c it's the simple functionality that a company should get right first. Then go from there. It's kind of like the iphone. The iphone can do anything you could ever imagine, but the thing it's worst at is being a phone. Seems silly...

Avid, take care of the "phone" functions first, please.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 11-03-2011, 11:37 AM
robertg robertg is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: earth
Posts: 543
Default Re: Why The Command 8 is better than the Artist Control/Mix

what's wrong with iphone's phone functionality?
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-03-2011, 11:44 AM
jyanisko jyanisko is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: CA
Posts: 31
Default Re: Why The Command 8 is better than the Artist Control/Mix

"4. Switch the Green "On" switch with a Red/Orange "Mute". Seems backwards. Switch the Red solo button to Green/Yellow solo button, LIKE EVERY CONSOLE ON THE PLANET...This should mimic the colors I'm seeing in Pro Tools, not backwards."

All american consoles work the way you say, but all european consoles I have worked on have always worked the way current artist series controllers work...never had a problem going back and forth - just know what information your controller is giving you.

multiple user setups make use of multiple log ins, the console information is stored in the users preferences...

I've never had a problem with the speed - personally, and I've used procontrol, 002, and various hui control surfaces...

"5. Eucon Automation modes should be one touch function. Shouldn't have to go though the global "Do to Selected" or "Do to All" functions first. "

I haven't actually done this myself - but I'm pretty sure you can change the functions to do the macro of both...


I'm not sure about the rest of them, as I've never had problems with it....
-James
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11-03-2011, 06:19 PM
jesse p jesse p is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Brooklyn NY
Posts: 120
Default Re: Why The Command 8 is better than the Artist Control/Mix

I don't think you can do the DO TO ALL/AUTO macro because it doesn't let you do more than one EUCON assignment per command and there are no key command for this.

I do agree with the need for these to be one touch for selected track by default
__________________
www.kdsound.net
Sound for film and Television
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-03-2011, 10:07 PM
Mark Ziebarth Mark Ziebarth is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 1998
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Posts: 666
Default Re: Why The Command 8 is better than the Artist Control/Mix

Lipmania,
I couldn't agree more. I use both a MC Control and a Command|8 connected to the same workstation. At the beginning I thought this would be a for a transition period only. But the development or implementation of the EuCon protocol into Pro Tools seems very slow. Consequence: The Command|8 is here to stay.
There are a lot of things a Command|8 is much better for, e.g. focussing the actual plug-in , fader flip, RTZ in the transport control and much smoother motor faders.

Mark
__________________
Mac Pro 2010 3.66 GHz six Cores, HD Native, 192 I/O, Avid Dock, Artist Mix and Pro Tools Ultimate
Mac Pro 2008, RME Fireface, Pro Tools 12, Euphonix MC Control
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-04-2011, 01:32 PM
Lipmania Lipmania is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 17
Default Re: Why The Command 8 is better than the Artist Control/Mix

Quote:
Originally Posted by robertg View Post
what's wrong with iphone's phone functionality?
Since the original iphone came out, it has consistently been known to have the worst signal and the most dropped calls.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jesse p View Post
I don't think you can do the DO TO ALL/AUTO macro because it doesn't let you do more than one EUCON assignment per command and there are no key command for this.

I do agree with the need for these to be one touch for selected track by default
This is correct. You are not able to combine the functions.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-04-2011, 01:38 PM
Lipmania Lipmania is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 17
Default Re: Why The Command 8 is better than the Artist Control/Mix

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Ziebarth View Post
Lipmania,
I couldn't agree more. I use both a MC Control and a Command|8 connected to the same workstation. At the beginning I thought this would be a for a transition period only. But the development or implementation of the EuCon protocol into Pro Tools seems very slow. Consequence: The Command|8 is here to stay.
There are a lot of things a Command|8 is much better for, e.g. focussing the actual plug-in , fader flip, RTZ in the transport control and much smoother motor faders.

Mark
Mark, I will agree that the transport on the Artist Control is awful, and the fader flip for the control is also cumbersome. BUT, I will say that the fader flip and view buttons on the left hand side of the Artist Mix are good once you get the hang of them.
__________________
-Lipmania

Mac Pro 3.0 gHz. Mac OS 10.6.8. Pro Tools 10HD
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11-04-2011, 01:52 PM
jorg jorg is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: London
Posts: 91
Default Re: Why The Command 8 is better than the Artist Control/Mix

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Ziebarth View Post
Lipmania,
I couldn't agree more. I use both a MC Control and a Command|8 connected to the same workstation. At the beginning I thought this would be a for a transition period only. But the development or implementation of the EuCon protocol into Pro Tools seems very slow. Consequence: The Command|8 is here to stay.
There are a lot of things a Command|8 is much better for, e.g. focussing the actual plug-in , fader flip, RTZ in the transport control and much smoother motor faders.

Mark
The focus function is the most used function for me.
I don't actually mix with the command 8 but love it for writing automations on plugins and instruments. The focus button makes it so fast.
The artist series seems a step backwards to me.
I just hope that by PT11, when Avid will drop the support for the command 8, they will have it working a bit better.
__________________
Mac Pro Nehalem 8 core 8 GB Ram
OS: 10.6.8
Pro Tools 10.0.1
RME Multiface II with Focusrite Octopre mkII
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-04-2011, 03:55 PM
Artist PM's Avatar
Artist PM Artist PM is offline
Avid
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: California
Posts: 251
Default Re: Why The Command 8 is better than the Artist Control/Mix

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lipmania View Post
You may think I'm crazy, and I am, but Avid Artist Control/Mix combination just isn't quite there yet in terms of functionality. It does some complex functions really great and easy once you get it going, but it's the simple functions/design that are really lacking on these units.

If I'm wrong on any point, please let me know. I'm not here to argue. I'm just here to possibly point out some things that could be much better to create more user friendly unit.

The Command8, while very simple, is just that. It's simple and it works. I've never had any problem with connections, speed(extremely responsive), and basic functionalities. It's a great workhorse of a controller. But, after looking into it and hearing great things, my studio decided to give the artist series a try. It's been a hassle to get going. Being an Avid product now, I would expect these products to work seamlessly with Pro Tools(HD10). However, this isn't the case. Working at mixing facility, we use a lot of show/hide memory locations, automation, inserts, and the like. With all controllers, I always expect it to work as a console would work.

Over the past week or so, here's a list of what we've gathered could be much better about these units.


1. Banking. Can't select the track in Pro Tools you want to be on the first fader w/o it auto-banking in multiples of four. Quick Key function: Shift-Control-Select Track. Should automatically make the selected track first fader, or Scroll into View. I have an 10 year old CM labs motor mix that doesn't this lightning fast. Why can't the Artist Control/Mix?!

2. Speed. When changing show/hide markers, unit is slow to respond in comparison to the very quick Command 8. You may say, "well, it's only 2 seconds you have to wait...". Why can my "ancient" command 8 work MUCH faster? and this is really annoying when trying to do things on the fly real fast.

3. Multiple User Setups?? Where are they?

4. Switch the Green "On" switch with a Red/Orange "Mute". Seems backwards. Switch the Red solo button to Green/Yellow solo button, LIKE EVERY CONSOLE ON THE PLANET...This should mimic the colors I'm seeing in Pro Tools, not backwards.

5. Eucon Automation modes should be one touch function. Shouldn't have to go though the global "Do to Selected" or "Do to All" functions first.

6. When using show/hide markers, after using bank/nudge functions, the faders don't reflect the first track on screen when switching to another show/hide memory location. It stays offset by the number of tracks you nudge/bank.

7. Assigned tracks get cleared when hiding them and showing other tracks. Even when tracks are brought back on screen, the assignment is cleared.

8. Fader values only step in 1db increments when over the number 10. This is absurd. You guys boast 10bit fader movements but can't move from -10.0 dB to -10.5 db!?!?! Ridiculous. And they didn't program this b/c there isn't room on the screen to notate the numbers. My track names go past the numbers by at least 4 or 5 characters.

That's all for now, and that's just the tip of the iceberg for things I'd like to change. I only mention these things b/c it's the simple functionality that a company should get right first. Then go from there. It's kind of like the iphone. The iphone can do anything you could ever imagine, but the thing it's worst at is being a phone. Seems silly...

Avid, take care of the "phone" functions first, please.
Hi Lipmania,

Thanks a lot for this. I'd like you to know that have been aware of these comparative differences with Pro Tools.

Please keep in mind that EUCON is constantly, actively developed and works across all of the leading audio and video media production applications. EUCON and Pro Tools is still a young integration, and continues to be improved.

John Haydon
Principal Product Manager | Live Systems and Consoles

Avid
2001 Junipero Serra Boulevard
Daly City, CA 94014-3886
United States
John.haydon@avid.com

We’re Avid. Learn more at www.avid.com <http://www.avid.com/>
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11-04-2011, 04:58 PM
propower propower is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Redmond, WA
Posts: 2,202
Default Re: Why The Command 8 is better than the Artist Control/Mix

Quote:
Originally Posted by JC Haydon View Post
Hi Lipmania,

Thanks a lot for this. I'd like you to know that have been aware of these comparative differences with Pro Tools.

Please keep in mind that EUCON is constantly, actively developed and works across all of the leading audio and video media production applications. EUCON and Pro Tools is still a young integration, and continues to be improved.

John Haydon
Principal Product Manager | Live Systems and Consoles

Avid
2001 Junipero Serra Boulevard
Daly City, CA 94014-3886
United States
John.haydon@avid.com

We’re Avid. Learn more at www.avid.com <http://www.avid.com/>
Although this may all be true...... I upgraded to PT9HD ONLY for Eucon....... since its release there were zero updates to the feature set. Now all the "improvements" are PT10 only. Per this I would full expect that any additions to the PT10 implementation will only be in PT11........

This has been quite disappointing considering the incredible platform that the Artist series is............... Like the incredibly obvious....... Plug ins and a touch screen...... when will we ever use this???? Single page UI with buttons assigning functions to knobs --- user templates for plugs etc etc etc.............
__________________
2017 27" iMac 3.8GHz i5, 1TB SSD
Logic ProX, Studio One V4, PT2019.x Orion Studio 2017, Apogee Ensemble TB
Musician: http://www.ivanlee.net/
Design Engineer: http://www.propowerinc.com/resume.html
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
How to control plugins applied to audio files with Artist Control ozu Artist Series 3 04-01-2013 02:36 AM
Touching Artist Transport Freezes Up Artist Control in Logic sonofmack Artist Series 1 03-13-2013 08:22 PM
Control Surface For Protools 10 Mackie Pro Control or Avid Artist Control lberrios1962 Pro Tools 10 18 05-26-2012 12:51 AM
Using Artist Control with Artist Transport? GrievousAngel Windows 2 03-14-2012 03:29 PM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:35 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited. Forum Hosted By: URLJet.com