Saturation, Analog Warmth, etc. plugins

[simon.a.billington]

Originally Posted by Jeezer

LOL. You bought the waves hype, based on? the name "Non linear summing" yeah? I think YOU really need to go research exactly what console shaper in Studio One does vs a, as I said, tacked on 'fake effect' like waves NLS, Slate VCC, Satson and all others.

There it is right there. "tacked on fake effect"

You don't spend all that time and money pull apart 3 consoles and analyse the differences in each channel only to just fake an effect for a plugin. That's what constitutes as a very bad business decision. No one would do that.

Your unfounded belief of opinion that has not grounding in fact, just attacks your credibility. Therefore, anything else you say is somewhat questionable, other than your opinion.

[amagras]

Originally Posted by 64GTOBOY

I have to admit I don't understand how any thing done in a DAW can be considered as audio summing. It isn't. It's math and algorithms. Summing is traditionally considered the process of mixing analog signals, as in a analog desk. ANY DAW "summing" is an algorithm process applied to a digital file that is a numerical representation of an analog signal. I can't see how it matters whether the algorithm is done by the host as opposed to a plugin-the algorithm either does a good job of creating a new file that simulates the analog summing process or it doesn't. Note SIMULATES. There is NO AUDIO in a DAW. There are only digital files that represent an analog signal. Thus NO analog summing is possible ITB. As for crosstalk, that is primarily something that was an inherent part of recording on magnetic tape, and was dealt with in various ways. I personally liked to use the fact of crosstalk to make the bass and kick tracks blend together by recording them on adjacent tracks, though I know many engineers avoided this on purpose. It is one of those creative decisions. Crosstalk ITB would have to be simulated as part of the algorithm and IMO it hasn't yet been successfully emulated(that I have heard) but I would like to see it done, as I miss being able to use it as an effect. As for NLS , Waves and any other DEV, I have to say if it does what I want it to do, to hell with it, I don't care whether its "cool" or if anybody else likes it.

There's some food for thought there.

At this point I think we should define what "summing" (in and out of TB) means to each one of us. To me it means nothing whatsoever but I'm happy to be convinced otherwise

[musicman691]

Originally Posted by amagras

There's some food for thought there.

At this point I think we should define what "summing" (in and out of TB) means to each one of us. To me it means nothing whatsoever but I'm happy to be convinced otherwise

To me 'summing' means just what it says: the aggregation of different items into one item. The daw takes multiple tracks and sums them together into one output from the program to the d/a converters (assuming one works with a 2-bus as the final out). To me that's summing in the box. Summing out of the box would delete the 2-bus in the above example and substitute whatever analog equipment (mixer, SSL console, analog summing box like an SSL or Neve has) that takes the individual outputs from the d/a converters and melds them into one track pair to go back into the computer's a/d converters.

[64GTOBOY]

Originally Posted by musicman691

To me 'summing' means just what it says: the aggregation of different items into one item. The daw takes multiple tracks and sums them together into one output from the program to the d/a converters (assuming one works with a 2-bus as the final out). To me that's summing in the box. Summing out of the box would delete the 2-bus in the above example and substitute whatever analog equipment (mixer, SSL console, analog summing box like an SSL or Neve has) that takes the individual outputs from the d/a converters and melds them into one track pair to go back into the computer's a/d converters.

Correct, yet my point was that analog behavior modeling of "summing" may or may not sound like what it models, but that does not mean it's bad and IMHO since there are no analog signals ITB all it can do is simulate true analog summing. The "math" is a description of the process , it is NOT the process. I am also sort of differentiating between "summing" and "busing" in my head, while they are synonomous, to me one connotes analog.

[musicman691]

Originally Posted by 64GTOBOY

Correct, yet my point was that analog behavior modeling of "summing" may or may not sound like what it models, but that does not mean it's bad and IMHO since there are no analog signals ITB all it can do is simulate true analog summing. The "math" is a description of the process , it is NOT the process. I am also sort of differentiating between "summing" and "busing" in my head, while they are synonomous, to me one connotes analog.

So which one, according to you, connotes analog? Both terms are used in the analog world. The math is the process in a computer. How can it be elsewise?

[64GTOBOY]

"Connotes" as in connotation referring to a feeling invoked by a word in addition to it's literal meaning, as I said, that particular connection is from my experiences. Wasn't disagreeing with you, I just always think of Summing (with a capital S I suppose)as a function of an electrical circuit called a summing amplifier. Just me. The math thing was answer to Simon BUT I was originally only trying to understand how Jeezer's assertion that the summing done by the DAW host is inherently better than the summing done by a plugin BECAUSE it's done by the DAW host. Whether it is better or not I don't know, I'm just curious as to why it would necessarily be better just because it's done by the host. I mean actual facts, though I could guess at different possibilities , I'm just wondering if there is some particular available data that was being referred to. Simulation of analog summing I should say, as I agree with your point that the plug in doesn't do the summing, the DAW does as we know.

[simon.a.billington]

It’s a common misperception. While you are summing binary together in digital technology, you ARENT actually summing audio in analogue. That’s actually wrong.

You’re summing together voltages. It doesn’t become audio until the monitors vibrate the air around them.

Whether you sum together voltages or sum together two binary values, the same mathematics principles are applied, 1 + 1 = 2, whether it’s using voyage or binary. So yes, it is possible to sum in the box.