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  #1  
Old 09-15-2016, 08:18 AM
jamesleonard jamesleonard is offline
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Default I need to downgrade from 10.11.6 to 10.11.3

Hello I need to downgrade from 10.11.6 to 10.11.3 (El Capitan)

Because I have:

• PT 12.5
• 003 workstation (Control Surface)

System Details
• Computer: 27-inch iMac (i7)_5K Retina display: (El Capitan OSX 10.11)
• Processor: 4.0GHz quad-core Intel Core i7, Turbo Boost up to 4.2GHz
• Memory: 32GB 1867MHz DDR3 SDRAM - four 8GB
• Storage: 1TB Flash Storage
• Graphics: AMD Radeon R9 M395X with 4GB video memory

First of all I'm sorry if I am asking a dumb question!

However, I have been told that:

• I need a back-up made from: 'Time Machine' or;
• If not, I will have to see a '3rd Party'

I know:

•Support for OS X 10.11 (El Capitan) was added with Pro Tools 12.3. OS X 10.11.0 - 10.11.3 supported
•Mac OS X 10.11.4, 10.11.5 & 10.11.6 are not qualified and not recommended for use with Pro Tools

Also know OS X Sierra is not qualified yet as well (not sure if Sierra will ever be compatible with my 003)

So... Just to reiterate - what action do I take now?

Many thanks to all in advance!

James

P.S. What Lead/Cable would I need? (i.e. from: '003 Workstation' > 'iMac')

EDIT//: It seems that - I will need the 'Apple Thunderbolt Male to FireWire Female Adapter.'
Once I obtain this adapter, I will keep using the original 'FireWire 800' cable (which is connected to the 003) and connect the: 'Apple Thunderbolt Male to FireWire Female Adapter' to the 'FireWire 800' cable and then connect this to the iMac (Thunderbolt 2 port).

(see link below):

http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/apple-thun...-adapter-a08lt

EDIT//: After a consultation with apple UK (about downgrading to 10.11.3) - they gave me the telephone number of an independent, 'apple accredited' business - who 'can downgrade' for: £27.00. I like the way apple delegates work to other independent businesses - especially, if apple don't/won't - want to do it theirselves

Last edited by jamesleonard; 09-16-2016 at 01:48 PM. Reason: I hope this helps
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  #2  
Old 09-18-2016, 04:27 PM
Matt Hepworth's Avatar
Matt Hepworth Matt Hepworth is offline
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Default I need to downgrade from 10.11.6 to 10.11.3

Just make sure you backed everything up. It sounds like they'll be formatting your drive and reinstalling. You can do the same on your own, but you'll need a bootable external drive with a lower OS.

The question is, can you just go back to 10.10.5 instead and skip EC entirely? Yosemite tends to be more stable for many users and doesn't have the missing and glitchy features of EC.
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  #3  
Old 09-18-2016, 04:44 PM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is offline
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Default Re: I need to downgrade from 10.11.6 to 10.11.3

Why do you think you need to downgrade? What exact problem are you trying to solve? What are you reading exactly (link please) or who is telling you that you have to do this? (You might well have to, but don't assume you have to just because stuff says it's not officially supported). And doing minor OS X upgrades can always break things so i want to make sure you have done basic troubleshooting and/or are getting good advice on the need to do this... like from the good folk on DUC, not Apple support.

What exact date code/name or model number is your Mac?

What exact OS X version did it come with? If you remember?

If you upgrade and want to roll back, time machine is *not* what you really want. Not at all (but it can work if all you have). You really want an image copy/clone of your boot disk made with something like Carbon Copy Cloner. If doing that you would just boot off the external disk drive your clone copy is on and see if that works, that test is as fast as rebooting the iMac. If you have not been making backups well... go buy a 7200 rpm external HDD (USB3 is great, G-Tech or similar quality brand) and a copy of Carbon Copy Cloner and work out how to use it, and start doing so as soon as your system is set up properly (maybe before if you want to move stuff over).

If you send your computer out to a third party you might as well clone it with Carbon Copy Cloner now and use that to recover stuff later. Otherwise as Matt says you will lose everything on the computer. I also agree if your computer can run Yosemite (came with Yosemite) then I would install that. But first I'd really focus on if you need to roll back at all, not being supported congifs, and being broken now does not mean your next step is to rollback, it means debug stuff, unless you have hard advice that this will absolutely not work.

Last edited by Darryl Ramm; 09-18-2016 at 05:14 PM.
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  #4  
Old 09-18-2016, 10:56 PM
jamesleonard jamesleonard is offline
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Default Re: I need to downgrade from 10.11.6 to 10.11.3

Good morning Darryl (well it is over here anyway)

I have listed your concerns in a chronological order (1-7):


1). I need to downgrade, because I need to run the '003 control surface' on Mac OS X 10.11-10.11.3 (as stipulated by Avid Knowledge Base)
see here:

http://avid.force.com/pkb/articles/d...02-003-Drivers

2). This is the problem I am addressing (see above).

3). I am reading this (see below) - incidentally, which is about PT12.5 - and 'winging its way' to me as I type:

.

4). Avid are instructing me to adhere to their guidelines/literature.

5). I am downgrading from 10.11.6 to 10.11.3

6). My iMac is: (Retina 5K, 27inch, late 2015_4GHz intel core i7).

7). It came factory installed with: OS X El capitan 10.11.6

This computer is brand new and I need to have my '003 control surface.' I also need to connect my monitor speakers as well - which is important!

And on a final note:

•Support for OS X 10.11 (El Capitan) was added with Pro Tools 12.3. OS X 10.11.0 - 10.11.3 supported
•Mac OS X 10.11.4, 10.11.5 & 10.11.6 are not qualified and not recommended for use with Pro Tools - or 003 Control Surface!

Also know OS X Sierra is not qualified yet as well (not sure if Sierra will ever be compatible with my 003)

These are the reasons - and 'Thank you very much' - for acknowledging me.

James

Last edited by jamesleonard; 09-19-2016 at 11:41 AM.
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  #5  
Old 09-19-2016, 09:26 AM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is offline
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Default Re: I need to downgrade from 10.11.6 to 10.11.3

I am not sure I see anything here that would make me want to mess with changing OS X at all.

The warning you are quoting "Mac OS X 10.11.4, 10.11.5 & 10.11.6 are not qualified and not recommended for use with Pro Tools - or 003 Control Surface" from http://avid.force.com/pkb/articles/c...EUCON-and-ISIS. Tells you why if you read a few lines down. Only one of those concerns could affect you, and even them might not affect you at all, and given the overall/other poor stability issues with 12.5.x I would err on the side of just trying it. if 6101 does not hit you many others might. It is especially crazy to take you Mac to some place to downgrade it, even if they can, and then to find out Pro Tools 12.5.x runs awfully on it anyhow. There are certainly many users are running the very latest Pro Tools on the very latest OS X release. And with such a nicely configured iMac you may run better than others.

If the iMac came with 10.11.6 is is not clear you can downgrade at all. It may be able to go back to 10.11.x but I am not perfectly clear on that.

I've said it already and I'll try to say it one final time more clearly.

Avid's compatibility matrix not listing something does not mean it will not work. Do not go leaping though hoops doing dangerous stuff without knowing for sure just installing the software on what you have now will not work. That is either testing it yourself or having a knowledgeable user on DUC tell you they know that particular combiantion absolutely will not work. And it it does not work for you.. troubleshoot first, and ask for help on DUC, before giving up.

So again the question is have you tried this? If so what actual techcnial problem are you trying to solve? The compatibility matrix saying something is not officially supported is not an actual problem. Avid is way behind being able to keep this up to date.

And start by going and get a backup external HDD (actually get two so you can rotate between them and survive a major failure while making a backup) and Carbon Copy cloner and start doing backups. Now. Before you install any software or try anything.

Last edited by Darryl Ramm; 09-19-2016 at 09:37 AM.
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  #6  
Old 09-19-2016, 03:59 PM
jamesleonard jamesleonard is offline
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Default Re: I need to downgrade from 10.11.6 to 10.11.3

Hi Darryl

Thanks for getting back to me - I appreciate that.

Should I just download the Firmware drivers to the 003 - whilst I have OS X 10.11.6 and try it?

What do you think? - It cant hurt can it?

Please get back to me?

I know the CPU performance peaks randomly on lower buffer sizes (AAE error -6101) with non-HD devices (as you pointed out!) - however, I think 'Avid's wording' on this and their tabulated information 'scared me' - and I literally took their word for it - and I started to panic.

I'm still panicking now actually! - Just want it all to function (i.e.: iMac, PT12, 003 Control surface, monitor speakers etc.)

Anyway, thanks for elaborating on the subject - I understand now.
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  #7  
Old 09-19-2016, 06:09 PM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is offline
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Default Re: I need to downgrade from 10.11.6 to 10.11.3

Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesleonard View Post
Hi Darryl

Thanks for getting back to me - I appreciate that.

Should I just download the Firmware drivers to the 003 - whilst I have OS X 10.11.6 and try it?

What do you think? - It cant hurt can it?

Please get back to me?

I know the CPU performance peaks randomly on lower buffer sizes (AAE error -6101) with non-HD devices (as you pointed out!) - however, I think 'Avid's wording' on this and their tabulated information 'scared me' - and I literally took their word for it - and I started to panic.

I'm still panicking now actually! - Just want it all to function (i.e.: iMac, PT12, 003 Control surface, monitor speakers etc.)

Anyway, thanks for elaborating on the subject - I understand now.
There are no "firmware" updates for the 003 that I am aware of. There are standard OS X drivers. Yes you should try this out. *After* you make a copy of your system drive with Carbon Copy cloner. And separate getting Pro Tools running and the 003 working. I would make sure Pro Tools works with Playback Engine set to Built-In Output, then worry about the 003.
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  #8  
Old 09-19-2016, 11:46 PM
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Matt Hepworth Matt Hepworth is offline
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Default Re: I need to downgrade from 10.11.6 to 10.11.3

Agree with the above completely.

In general, 'don't mess with the OS' is a slogan we should embrace as a culture—especially for audio. IF the setup doesn't work, then look at the downgrade.
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