Midi through delay with hardware synths

[Tim Ripley]

SOLVED!
Look later in this thread for the bold red text for the workaround/solution.

Please don't comment on this thread if you don't use hardware synths and the midi thru function in Pro Tools.

I am getting a delay that is large enough to make it difficult to play quick passages on the piano or any percussion. I have tried three different interfaces and they all have the same delay with Pro Tools. All three interfaces work perfectly with Digital Performer with no perceived delay. I am not monitoring the output of the synths in Pro tools at all. The synths are monitored directly from the console. I've been doing this for 30 years with Digital Performer. No audio is being run through Pro Tools - just the midi information on the way to the synth. The delay goes away if I open the dialog box for playback engine and change ANY setting but, when I exit the dialog box, the day returns immediately. I have no plugins running in Pro Tools and only one track in the session. I've seen others post about this problem but I've not seen any solutions - just a bunch of guys talking about VI's, keeping the buffer setting low, and not running effects on the master bus. This has nothing to do with any of that.

[Base12]

I use 95% 1980s hardware synths/drums. I have sync issues many times and the only section where I can correct this is in PT menu, go to Setup/Preference/MIDI, then in the field Global MIDI Playback offset wither enter a positive or negative number such as -400 or 400, then playback your drum machine and recorded midi notes/audio. Play with the numbers.
Also, in the Menu-> Options, try Delay Compensation on or off. Its a trial and error but once you find the number for the gear, it syncs up fine.

[ChuckS]

This delay with outboard gear seems to be tied to the audio buffer size. I find the bigger the buffer the longer the delay. Not quite sure why they would adjust the MIDI timing like this for outboard MIDI thru. I haven't experienced this in other DAWs.

[Tim Ripley]

Originally Posted by Base12

I use 95% 1980s hardware synths/drums. I have sync issues many times and the only section where I can correct this is in PT menu, go to Setup/Preference/MIDI, then in the field Global MIDI Playback offset wither enter a positive or negative number such as -400 or 400, then playback your drum machine and recorded midi notes/audio. Play with the numbers.
Also, in the Menu-> Options, try Delay Compensation on or off. Its a trial and error but once you find the number for the gear, it syncs up fine.

This has nothing to do with playback or sync. It has to do with the delay while trying to play the synths live.

[Tim Ripley]

Originally Posted by ChuckS

This delay with outboard gear seems to be tied to the audio buffer size. I find the bigger the buffer the longer the delay. Not quite sure why they would adjust the MIDI timing like this for outboard MIDI thru. I haven't experienced this in other DAWs.

I get exactly the same delay no matter where the buffer is set.

[Blinkofani]

Originally Posted by Tim Ripley

This has nothing to do with playback or sync. It has to do with the delay while trying to play the synths live.

I have no delay when playing ext. synth. Here's my setup: I select a midi track and the audio is coming back in PT through an audio track that I leave on input monitoring("I" button). In Options, Midi thru and Delay Compensation are ticked. Buffer is at 256. Hope it helps.

Blink

[Tim Ripley]

Originally Posted by Blinkofani

I have no delay when playing ext. synth. Here's my setup: I select a midi track and the audio is coming back in PT through an audio track that I leave on input monitoring("I" button). In Options, Midi thru and Delay Compensation are ticked. Buffer is at 256. Hope it helps.

Blink

I don't monitor the synths in pro tools, and the buffer has no effect on the delay whether it's set to minimum or maximum. The only thing going through pro tools is the MIDI. What MIDI interface and controller are you using?

[Blinkofani]

Originally Posted by Tim Ripley

I don't monitor the synths in pro tools, and the buffer has no effect on the delay whether it's set to minimum or maximum. The only thing going through pro tools is the MIDI. What MIDI interface and controller are you using?

Korg Z1 going in a Cakewalk UM-1g, sending Midi to a Dave Smith Mopho and Korg Wavestation...

Blink

[ChuckS]

Originally Posted by Blinkofani

Korg Z1 going in a Cakewalk UM-1g, sending Midi to a Dave Smith Mopho and Korg Wavestation...

Blink

Just for grins - if you bump up your buffer to 1024 is a delay introduced? The OP and I are using the same MIDI interface, so there might be something there.

[chroma17]

Have you tried un-checking "MIDI Notes and Controllers" under the "Delay Compensation for External Devices" heading in the MIDI preferences? This can effect MIDI being routed through Pro Tools even if you are not recording.

I only have a slight delay (around 10ms) sending MIDI via an RME AIO PCIe card.