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  #1  
Old 07-30-2012, 06:47 PM
Fooks Fooks is offline
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Default How bout a hybrid.

So does anybody else think a hybrid cross between the C24 and the artist series? I'm thinking like 16 faders, meter bridge, transport section, awesome scribble strip, rotary L.E.D. Custom faders. All ran from EuCon protocol.
They could leave out the mic pre's, sub line mixer, monitor section. Lets face it, while the monitor section sounds ok, there are much better monitor controllers out there (Dangerous Music Monitor ST). All around 5,000 or so, right in line to compete with the SSL Nucleus. The artist series are nice but a control surface dressed to impress would kill. A project studios dream, we always get control surfaces that doesn't come with a meter bridge or classic transport, it's always some bastardized version.
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Old 07-30-2012, 09:19 PM
albee1952 albee1952 is offline
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Default Re: How bout a hybrid.

Yeah, I've been begging for a "Command16" for over a year now It SHOULD be a helluva lot less than the Nucleus......more like $2k, tops. That would be nice to go with the new 004rack(another wish) that has 8 analog inputs and 24 channels of lightpipe(which could also do SMUX on one set). I can dream, can't I
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  #3  
Old 07-30-2012, 10:00 PM
getz76 getz76 is offline
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Default Re: How bout a hybrid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by albee1952 View Post
Yeah, I've been begging for a "Command16" for over a year now It SHOULD be a helluva lot less than the Nucleus......more like $2k, tops. That would be nice to go with the new 004rack(another wish) that has 8 analog inputs and 24 channels of lightpipe(which could also do SMUX on one set). I can dream, can't I
Mackie MCU and extender is under $2k. No meter-bridge, but the faders are great.

8 analog inputs and 24 channels of lightpipe? Firewire?

You can run a pair of MOTU 828mk3 units via Firewire.
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Old 07-30-2012, 10:13 PM
Brandonx1 Brandonx1 is offline
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Default Re: How bout a hybrid.

I always thought avid should re release the pro control but this time make a eucon edition. Keep the original optical faders (best faders ever!) and most of the for factor of the original pro control add a touch screen, ect...
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  #5  
Old 07-31-2012, 10:16 AM
Fooks Fooks is offline
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Default Re: How bout a hybrid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by getz76 View Post
Mackie MCU and extender is under $2k. No meter-bridge, but the faders are great.

8 analog inputs and 24 channels of lightpipe? Firewire?

You can run a pair of MOTU 828mk3 units via Firewire.
Still only HUI protocol. If Avid made a "Command-16" or "C16" it would have the protocol that the C24 or the Icon series use to control Pro Tools or it would have EuCon which both wipes the floor with HUI or MCU. You get much, much more than fader control. You get control over every aspect of Pro Tools. The meter bridge is a huge factor, for one having the 14 light L.E.D. (not sure if it is 14 L.E.D.'s but it's close) is important for a lot of reasons, the obvious for metering right on the board instead of having to look at the monitor or your interface, plus the meter bridge looks awesome and sorry to say when you are selling your studio and abilities, looks have a lot to do with it.

I believe when he said 8 Analog inputs and 24 channels of lightpipe, he didn't mean that it would be ran through firewire, but through thunderbolt. Plus everybody that is dreaming about the 004 wants it to be able to run DSP for Pro Tools HD. Actually some sort of HD rig that falls between the HD native card and the Mbox, an all-in-one solution for HD that can be plugged into their mac books or iMacs that have thunderbolt with a single cable. If Avid did that I'm sure it would have DSP for I/O but it won't have near the power that HDX has, so it wouldn't handle AAX DSP plugins. Nice thought but Avid would be shooting themselves in the foot.
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  #6  
Old 07-31-2012, 11:22 AM
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YYR123 YYR123 is offline
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Default Re: How bout a hybrid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fooks View Post
Plus everybody that is dreaming about the 004 wants it to be able to run DSP for Pro Tools HD. Actually some sort of HD rig that falls between the HD native card and the Mbox, an all-in-one solution
Wooooo Sounds Nice.......




However it is probably not even on the radar....due to all of avid's energies being dedicated to PT10 w/o bugs and PT11x64......i think they should hold down the fort and keep the customer base happy with solid software b/f jumping on onto new hardware R&D.....But yeah it would be cool for a 004 with itb Air plugs like the apollo.......YEAH>>>>>>>
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  #7  
Old 07-31-2012, 11:13 PM
getz76 getz76 is offline
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Default Re: How bout a hybrid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fooks View Post
Still only HUI protocol. If Avid made a "Command-16" or "C16" it would have the protocol that the C24 or the Icon series use to control Pro Tools or it would have EuCon which both wipes the floor with HUI or MCU. You get much, much more than fader control. You get control over every aspect of Pro Tools.
Agreed, but with the right desk setup, you can do a lot with a Mackie MCU (or SSL Nucleus), a keyboard and a mouse. I think it is down to ergonomics and muscle memory. And they work with any DAW. To each his own, though.

The SSL Nucleus is gorgeous, by the way. I'm not sure I love the "split" of the faders, but they did a great job with fit, finish and feel. Of course, the price reflects that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fooks View Post
The meter bridge is a huge factor, for one having the 14 light L.E.D. (not sure if it is 14 L.E.D.'s but it's close) is important for a lot of reasons, the obvious for metering right on the board instead of having to look at the monitor or your interface, plus the meter bridge looks awesome and sorry to say when you are selling your studio and abilities, looks have a lot to do with it.
I completely agree. I am surprised no one has come out with an add-on USB/MIDI meter bridge. It's obviously possible. Definitely the eye-candy. In the perfect world, you get good faders, meters, and scribble-strips.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fooks View Post
I believe when he said 8 Analog inputs and 24 channels of lightpipe, he didn't mean that it would be ran through firewire, but through thunderbolt. Plus everybody that is dreaming about the 004 wants it to be able to run DSP for Pro Tools HD. Actually some sort of HD rig that falls between the HD native card and the Mbox, an all-in-one solution for HD that can be plugged into their mac books or iMacs that have thunderbolt with a single cable. If Avid did that I'm sure it would have DSP for I/O but it won't have near the power that HDX has, so it wouldn't handle AAX DSP plugins. Nice thought but Avid would be shooting themselves in the foot.
Well, I have no desire for Pro Tools HD or HDX/AAX-DSP. I would rather have the MOTU CueMix FX; simple to use and good enough for, umm... cue mixes. :) Dead simple, cost effective, and works with any DAW. If not the MOTU, the RME TotalMix is fantastic as well. Then again, I have no need to track through production plug-ins. Even for overdubs I can stay at 64 samples at 96kHz, even without freezing tracks on reasonably-sized sessions in Logic. For me, the native system is working for production. Considering that my current MacBook Pro (2011) is nearly as powerful as my Mac Pro (2009), I imagine it will get even better in two years. To me, DSP-based production seems like an anchor that might not be necessary going forward. I am not saying it is invalid; there are plenty of applications where it makes complete sense and the budget is there for it, but I think for all the second-tier production the returns are diminishing significantly.

How about a MOTU 2408mk3 with a PCIe card? Need it on an iMac? Wait for the drivers and slam it into THIS. We're almost there! It's only taken nearly two years!

I think if we are going to see Avid-based DSP in a non-PCIe format, it's going to be a Thunderbolt "bridge" that is effectively an HDX or HD-Native card in a brick or rackmount form-factor that is going to have standard HD interface hookups with the current Avid interfaces. That way you don't need to stock and maintain two sets of interfaces. It would probably make the most sense, pretty much like the Magma-chassis or OWC-Helios setup, right?
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  #8  
Old 08-01-2012, 01:18 AM
Nightworker Nightworker is offline
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Default Re: How bout a hybrid.

I know m-audio is no longer part of avid, but for integration with pro tools the M-audio Projectmix I/O was pretty spot on for a under 1.5 k controller..so I thought.. why not give some Ideas to m-audio

http://forums.m-audio.com/showthread...ontrol-surface
Now that M-Audio is with iNMusic, is there the possibility that we see an update for the PMIO or a new control surface? Either firewireor Thunderbolt based or both.

•16 preamps (better quality than those presently used. Maybe the same as the saffire line) 16 xlr input 16 TRS inputs. Independent phantom power switch. spdif inputs, 5.1 surround possibility.
•The possibility of linking 16 extra preamps through 2 adats or 1 TB port.
•8/16/24 100 mm touch sensitive faders options.
•Actual 12 leds VU meters on each channels. ( 5mm leds goes for .50$ when you buy them at unity, so it's really not expensive to implement when you buy them in bulks)
•NON endless turn knobs for mains and 2x headsets volume control. (meaning that you can't turn them indefinitely) With visual leds
•Push button for editing modes (grid, slide, spot, shuffle)
•Push button for editing tools
•Push button for copy/paste/delete/duplicate
•Push button for automation (latch, write, read, off, touch)
•Push button for marker imput
•Push button for punch in/out
•Push button to set the inputs/outputs*
•Push buttons for inserts and sends* (instead of the old plugins assignation mode for inserts which was not fast to use at all) spanning the 10 slots of each insert and sends. That automatically opens the plugin windows/sends faders windows A bit like the old pro control.
•Push buttons for option/apple/shift (alt/control/shift) that actually works with pro tools
•Mute/solo/select/rec enable push buttons on each tracks*
•Push button for flip mode*
•Push button to open/close the plugin windows.
•Push buttons to set the in/out, nudge left/right, lock, loop*. Go to marker (numeric keypad to select which marker)
•Non endless turn Pan encoders on each track (meaning that you can't turn them indefinitely) with visual leds
•Plugins control encoders.*
•Transport section*
•Windows toggle push button*
•Track size zoom, waveform zoom control* with control to move through the different sessions track.
•Push button to create new tracks
•Scrub wheel, with push button to assign the scrub function.*
•Numeric keypad to name channels/sends/aux/In outs/markers.
•Bank select push buttons with 1 or controller size channels option (8/16/24 modes) with back to first fader/last fader.
•Push button for save/load session

*Some of these function are already in the original PMIO but could set differently to speed the process.

Any how just a crazy idea of mine, if it was sold sub 2k with all these options.. damn. Will probably never happen though.
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  #9  
Old 08-01-2012, 09:00 AM
Fooks Fooks is offline
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Default Re: How bout a hybrid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by getz76 View Post
I am not saying it is invalid; there are plenty of applications where it makes complete sense and the budget is there for it, but I think for all the second-tier production the returns are diminishing significantly.
Actually I think DSP based systems are growing, in the professional world anyway. With the way Post Production and even Music sessions are growing in complexity, and plugins are increasingly sounding more authentic (UAD) and require more and more processing power, what you can do with a HDX 3 system at 96k you woould need to link several native systems (computer, and interface, and pre amps etc.) together. Sure what you do doesn't require much processing of that magnitude, but people that record 30 piece orchestra or larger for movie sound tracks and so on. I know you or I might not need to record 150 tracks simultaneously @ 96k, but somebody does. I know you said that it is not invalid, but I think you are underestimating the need for it.
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Old 08-01-2012, 09:07 AM
Fooks Fooks is offline
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Default Re: How bout a hybrid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightworker View Post
I know m-audio is no longer part of avid, but for integration with pro tools the M-audio Projectmix I/O was pretty spot on for a under 1.5 k controller..so I thought.. why not give some Ideas to m-audio

http://forums.m-audio.com/showthread...ontrol-surface
Now that M-Audio is with iNMusic, is there the possibility that we see an update for the PMIO or a new control surface? Either firewireor Thunderbolt based or both.

•16 preamps (better quality than those presently used. Maybe the same as the saffire line) 16 xlr input 16 TRS inputs. Independent phantom power switch. spdif inputs, 5.1 surround possibility.
•The possibility of linking 16 extra preamps through 2 adats or 1 TB port.
•8/16/24 100 mm touch sensitive faders options.
•Actual 12 leds VU meters on each channels. ( 5mm leds goes for .50$ when you buy them at unity, so it's really not expensive to implement when you buy them in bulks)
•NON endless turn knobs for mains and 2x headsets volume control. (meaning that you can't turn them indefinitely) With visual leds
•Push button for editing modes (grid, slide, spot, shuffle)
•Push button for editing tools
•Push button for copy/paste/delete/duplicate
•Push button for automation (latch, write, read, off, touch)
•Push button for marker imput
•Push button for punch in/out
•Push button to set the inputs/outputs*
•Push buttons for inserts and sends* (instead of the old plugins assignation mode for inserts which was not fast to use at all) spanning the 10 slots of each insert and sends. That automatically opens the plugin windows/sends faders windows A bit like the old pro control.
•Push buttons for option/apple/shift (alt/control/shift) that actually works with pro tools
•Mute/solo/select/rec enable push buttons on each tracks*
•Push button for flip mode*
•Push button to open/close the plugin windows.
•Push buttons to set the in/out, nudge left/right, lock, loop*. Go to marker (numeric keypad to select which marker)
•Non endless turn Pan encoders on each track (meaning that you can't turn them indefinitely) with visual leds
•Plugins control encoders.*
•Transport section*
•Windows toggle push button*
•Track size zoom, waveform zoom control* with control to move through the different sessions track.
•Push button to create new tracks
•Scrub wheel, with push button to assign the scrub function.*
•Numeric keypad to name channels/sends/aux/In outs/markers.
•Bank select push buttons with 1 or controller size channels option (8/16/24 modes) with back to first fader/last fader.
•Push button for save/load session

*Some of these function are already in the original PMIO but could set differently to speed the process.

Any how just a crazy idea of mine, if it was sold sub 2k with all these options.. damn. Will probably never happen though.
All good suggestions, but most control surfaces (Nucleus, avid artist series etc.) already provide programmable soft keys so you can make shortcuts to fit your needs, instead of having to learn a set button. I like the Bank select idea. Can still leave the preamps out. All that is going to do is make the unit cost more, when there are already outstanding preamps out there, they will just put crap pre's in it. You won't see the same pre's as you would in the Omni interface or the Avid Pre, you will get average or below pre's to keep the price somewhat low, but if they want to compete price wise, make something of good quality, programmable, EuCon protocol, meter bridge, 16 faders, weighted Jog wheel, and make it 2-4,000 in price. Let us worry about monitoring and talkback there are plenty of great interfaces for that
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