Elastic Audio... not ready for drums vs. BD?

[yeloocevad]

OK... I really want to like EA for drum edits... been on Beat Detective for the last 8 years.

I've done the Kenny G. tutorial, the HA tutorial, read the manual, and read all the threads on the DUC. Spent many hours and days with 7.4.2 in EA mode.

I have some songs that no matter what I do, EA will start to create phasing artifacts all over the place. I've got MM27 monitors here so I know what I'm hearing; it's a major problem. Yes, I lock down large sections before editing. I've played with removing/ re-editing analysis points. I've tried polyphonic on the OH mics. The drums were recorded in a world class facility with a great engineer. But as soon as I hit "quantize" on sections, the drums go a tiny bit 2D and get thin sounding. The problem is so widespread on these songs that it is too much work to go in there and fix areas in patched, without ripping out all the analysis markers and placing by hand. That didn't sound too good either, where I've had the time to try it.

Does anyone have any kind of thoughts about what causes the phasing? I thought maybe it was when the OH or room mics had a slight offset in the analysis markers between L and R that needed correction. That didn't help though. Seems like it's the snare where I hear the most problems, like a slight phasing that animates with the track.

I dunno. Is it just me? I can't get anything decent out of it unless it's just a little spot fix where something won't beat detect right. I like the fact that it sounds less "edited" than BD, especially in between hits, but the sound quality is not there yet. Seems like a "lite" way to edit drums if you were doing commercial work or demos or something.

[pmklein]

Yeah, it's touchy with the cymbals. If it has to time expand, things get icky. Compressing is less of a problem.

That being said, it's pretty amazing once you get the hang of it. I just fixed a multitrack drum performance that was way out there. Your best bet is to cut it into pieces and tweak each section. I had to move and delete a lot of warp, analysis markers. Try that in the sections that seem most offensive.

There were sections that were "phasey" but once we laid the guitars, etc. on top you couldn't tell. It's mostly in the overheads and room mics.

I was very discouraged with my first attempts using EA, I admit. But I'm now a believer.

[elicious]

after you hit quantize did you take your event sensitivity down to zero?
many times this will get rid of most of the artifacts (also on gtrs, bass, vox, etc.)
b.o.l.
e

[Davidwilson]

Well i've never had any problems with BD unless a drummer is wayout and in that case I can do a particular section manualy.
So EA isn't enticing me yet.

Tap to transient is lame though, has that improved in 7.4?

I still dont know why Soundreplacer cannot locate transient either as DB can.

[yeloocevad]

Thanks, I'll try taking down the event sensitivity. Also, I'll try cutting things down into smaller sections. I've definitely messed with analysis and warps to no end.

Man, I just can't get down with this phasing problem, it's a real deal breaker for me. I really want it to sound good... I want to be able to use it. Just seems like it's not solid yet. I used it very effectively on a tom breakdown part today, but as soon as the drummer went to the chorus (sort of washy with hats and cymbals) it was just game over for the snare phase. I think it's getting confused about transients where there's flams.

[elicious]

Originally Posted by Davidwilson

Tap to transient is lame though, has that improved in 7.4?

hugely, as now t2t can now be adjusted by the same event sensitivity

e

[pmklein]

Originally Posted by Davidwilson

Well i've never had any problems with BD unless a drummer is wayout and in that case I can do a particular section manualy.
So EA isn't enticing me yet.

I still dont know why Soundreplacer cannot locate transient either as DB can.

Beat Detective and Soundreplacer are soooo 1990's...

Seriously though, once you get Elastic Audio down, you probably won't want to bother with BD for most stuff.

[pmklein]

Originally Posted by yeloocevad

Thanks, I'll try taking down the event sensitivity...

Yeah, that will help a lot in many cases. There's actually a kind of Zen art to working with EA. Once you start to lock into the feel of it you'll know where to move warp markers and what to delete, etc.

It's like the guy (can't remember his name) says in the EA videos- "There are a lot of reasons why the markers can be misplaced. The important thing is that we can fix it..." Have you watched the videos they have up on the website?

[yeloocevad]

I hear ya, I've seen all the vids. Removed analysis and warps for hours, and replaced them. It still doesn't explain why there seems to be no solution to the phasing. It seems subtle enough that maybe folks aren't hearing it, or it's just not bad enough to most people. It's bad enough on more than half the songs I've tried it on. It's bumming me out.

[fasttraxx]

yeloocevad,
You've probably have already tried this, but making sure the quantize is set to small subdivisions like 16th,32 has helped me get EA to work if tracked with a click track.
I do believe EA is faster then BD. Another thing that might help is having a stereo OH track or at least take your two mono tracks and put them on a stereo track. You can always put them back once you get the results your after in EA. I think EA works better this way.
You might also try a different EA setting like rhythm.