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  #51  
Old 02-16-2012, 12:54 PM
WinTaper WinTaper is offline
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Default Re: Record Offset for 3rd Party Hardware? WTF!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by scottgreiner View Post
Just so I'm clear, you're using "non-HD" Protools, right?

I'm still toying with non-HD setups in preparation for the future when my vintage HD setup will no longer be supported.

Currently, my HD system puts my overdubs where they belong, as long as I have the "compensate for input & output delays" options ticked in the I/O setup. I'm using a Lynx Aurora16 with their LT-HD card, which has the same latency as a Digidesign 192. Are you saying that these check boxes don't exist in non-HD Protools? That would suck, to say the least. I will check my Protools 10 HD software running in native mode today when I get to the studio...
Yes, I am NOT running HD ... the options are missing. In most other DAWs there's a way to enter the offset. You still have to determine that offset yourself - using a DA->AD loop, but other DAWs allow for it.
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  #52  
Old 02-16-2012, 03:40 PM
Don T Don T is offline
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Default Re: Record Offset for 3rd Party Hardware? WTF!!

Hello all,
My experience with SPDIF is that it is highly buffered as a data protocol. AES/EBU has much less latency. I suspect those of you using SPDIF with a 3rd party A/D converter are suffering the additional buffer latency.

FYI
Don T

P.S. My class will be testing latency in our PT9 HD native and PT9 w/ MOTU 24 I/O DAW's this evening (MacPro 12 core - OSX 10.6.8). I'll post our results. We will test DP 7.24 (24 I/O) as well.
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  #53  
Old 02-16-2012, 03:57 PM
Carl Lie Carl Lie is online now
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Default Re: Record Offset for 3rd Party Hardware? WTF!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don T View Post
Hello all,
My experience with SPDIF is that it is highly buffered as a data protocol. AES/EBU has much less latency. I suspect those of you using SPDIF with a 3rd party A/D converter are suffering the additional buffer latency.
Maybe you should read what we've actually tested and then run that test and get back to us.

C
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  #54  
Old 02-16-2012, 04:09 PM
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Default Re: Record Offset for 3rd Party Hardware? WTF!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don T View Post
My experience with SPDIF is that it is highly buffered as a data protocol. AES/EBU has much less latency. I suspect those of you using SPDIF with a 3rd party A/D converter are suffering the additional buffer latency.
That's a misconception. As data protocols, S/PDIF and AES3 are not very different. Usually, the same receiver chip can be used for either one. Any difference in transmission delay would be attributable to hardware and driver characteristics.
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  #55  
Old 02-16-2012, 07:35 PM
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panamajack panamajack is offline
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Default Re: Record Offset for 3rd Party Hardware? WTF!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don T View Post
...My experience with SPDIF is that it is highly buffered as a data protocol. AES/EBU has much less latency...
I would like to read your source material for that statement. I have been under the impression that SPDIF uses 75 ohm cable and AES/EBU uses 110 ohm cable (and has a more precisely defined clock specification), but both are carrying binary information. The bottleneck, as far as the discussion at hand goes, is in the A/D and D/A conversion processes. The electrons are zipping along pretty quick until then.

But, be that as it may, the thread is focused primarily on some peculiar automatic delay compensation behavior exhibited by current PT10HD Avid products.
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  #56  
Old 02-16-2012, 10:59 PM
sfere1 sfere1 is offline
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Default Re: Record Offset for 3rd Party Hardware? WTF!!

Hi Panama...
yes the thread seems to have morphed because I purchased HDX and the HD I/O with the initial thought that this would solve my HD Native issue. Only to find out afterwards with Carl's testing AND my own that the issue was valid on both fronts. It very well could be a PT10HD/PT10 issue. The lack of a response/reply from Avid is VERY irritating to say the least.

THANK YOU scott for another verification...I'm starting to not feel crazy and incompetent after all. LMAO! Test your HDX/HD Native rigs y'all.

thanks again
Dennis
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  #57  
Old 02-17-2012, 06:25 AM
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panamajack panamajack is offline
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Default Re: Record Offset for 3rd Party Hardware? WTF!!

Anyone care to comment in response to this link concerning how Pro Tools handles ADC?

http://www.pyramindonline.com/index....catid=6&id=365

It points out a discrepancy in Avid's explanation of ADC, and may either add to or dissipate some confusion. The test was in PT9, but should still be pertinent. The test method was interesting.
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  #58  
Old 02-17-2012, 01:55 PM
Don T Don T is offline
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Default Re: Record Offset for 3rd Party Hardware? WTF!!

Hello,
My comments on SPDIF / AES latency are empirical I'm afraid. Running our Digidesign 96IO's and using an external loop for each. It's not the data transmission speed, it's the buffering of data on each end. Tests have been consistent each year starting with PT 7 in 2005.
I've read this entire thread.

Here are my comments about our tests in last night's class.

Don T

----------------------
We did latency tests in class for 3 hours on 2 DAW's and here is what we found.
1. Audio stopped working a couple of times on each DAW.
2. Latency varied widely (76 samples to 588 - D/A > A/D loop w/no plugins) and I determined that delay compensation was randomly quitting just like the audio.

Conclusion: None of my specific latency figures from last night can be relied upon because of the nature of PT9's audio engine problems.

What I think the problem is: There is a RAM allocation problem between OSX and PT9/10. I believe that each time we instantiate a track, plugin or delay compensation, the ram that is allocated for that process gets hijacked by another process we instantiate later. Somehow OSX does not recognize the ram allocation and thinks it is free due to momentary inactivity or whatever so it allows PT to re-allocate the ram rendering the prior process inoperative. Closing and reopening PT allows all the RAM to be re-allocated and all processes return until the next time.
Kinda reminds me of "memory leaks" of yesteryear where unused ram was allocated and inactive ram was lost until a restart or iFreemem was run.

Don T
MacPro 12 core OSX 10.6.8 PT9.0.6HD native Control|24 & PT9 w/MOTU 24 I/O

ON Edit: I will stop trying to solve this problem now and use an analog solution for cue mix latency until Avid provides a cure. I can use DP 7.24 if it gets untenable.
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  #59  
Old 02-18-2012, 02:21 AM
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panamajack panamajack is offline
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Default Re: Record Offset for 3rd Party Hardware? WTF!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don T View Post
Hello,
My comments on SPDIF / AES latency are empirical I'm afraid...Tests have been consistent each year starting with PT 7 in 2005.
...
Conclusion: None of my specific latency figures from last night can be relied upon because of the nature of PT9's audio engine problems.
...
ON Edit: I will stop trying to solve this problem now and use an analog solution for cue mix latency until Avid provides a cure. I can use DP 7.24 if it gets untenable.
Thanks for sharing, but I need further explanation:

You say your tests have been consistent since PT7. Does that mean your tests have been inconclusive since 2005? Does it mean that until PT9HD your tests were consistent? Does it mean that your tests consistently have shown Pro Tools to drop audio and lack consistency with respect to automatic delay compensation? Does it mean that since 2005 none of the low level memory routines within Apple's operating systems have functioned correctly with Pro Tools? Does it mean that your current DP 7.24 performs these tests properly with respect to the memory subroutines contained in OSX? Does it mean that Pro Tools works improperly on all computers? What computer are you using? Have you also performed these tests with Pro Tools running under Windows 7 64 bit? Under Windows XP SP3? Is latency different between OSX and Windows 7? Are you teaching at an accredited university?
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  #60  
Old 02-18-2012, 02:08 PM
Trainwrecker Trainwrecker is offline
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Default Re: Record Offset for 3rd Party Hardware? WTF!!

Why The anger display? That is uncalled for. There are people who are on this thread all trying to do their best.

I find this thread very interesting btw. Thanks for the posts.
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