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  #41  
Old 02-14-2012, 04:43 PM
Carl Lie Carl Lie is offline
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Default Re: Record Offset for 3rd Party Hardware? WTF!!

Recording with delay comp on with plugins and VI's will cause the new audio to be further delayed.

Right now neither is a proper option when you introduce plugins and VI's.

Carl

What's up Avid - set me straight on this.

Carl
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  #42  
Old 02-15-2012, 12:46 AM
scottgreiner scottgreiner is offline
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Default Re: Record Offset for 3rd Party Hardware? WTF!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by WinTaper View Post
There was a long thread on this issue when PT9 came out, where it was confirmed this is an issue. PT does not allow for a manual offset to compensate for external ADC/DAC buffers. Most other DAWs allow some global setting to be entered which is then applied to each recorded track. PT does not. This has nothing to do with ADC or I/O Inserts.

So far the best workaround is to apply the offset sample amount into the manual offset field of each track. typically this would be a negative number - to compensate for a positive offset. In my case -72 samples makes everything sample-accurate.
Just so I'm clear, you're using "non-HD" Protools, right?

I'm still toying with non-HD setups in preparation for the future when my vintage HD setup will no longer be supported.

Currently, my HD system puts my overdubs where they belong, as long as I have the "compensate for input & output delays" options ticked in the I/O setup. I'm using a Lynx Aurora16 with their LT-HD card, which has the same latency as a Digidesign 192. Are you saying that these check boxes don't exist in non-HD Protools? That would suck, to say the least. I will check my Protools 10 HD software running in native mode today when I get to the studio...
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  #43  
Old 02-15-2012, 02:36 AM
soybalm soybalm is offline
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Default Re: Record Offset for 3rd Party Hardware? WTF!!

I use an M Audiophile 192 PCI slaved to an Apogee Mini Me via SPDIF and I don't have any problems at all. I did have problems with plug in latency but the recent ADC fixed that. I agree though that they should have it and it should be automatic like Nuendo. I like how Nuendo figures out the round trip which is way more honest
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  #44  
Old 02-15-2012, 04:15 AM
sfere1 sfere1 is offline
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Default Re: Record Offset for 3rd Party Hardware? WTF!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Lie View Post
Recording with delay comp on with plugins and VI's will cause the new audio to be further delayed.

Right now neither is a proper option when you introduce plugins and VI's.

Carl

What's up Avid - set me straight on this.

Carl
Hey Carl...glad to see i'm not as crazy as some people think i am lol...So we installed my HDX system w/HD I/O 16x16...SAME results as you!!! This is on a mac pro 12core and 10.7.2 Lion. Amazing..lol. Line's up as sample accurate with delay comp on and no plugs...turn it off and its off by a few samples. Add plug ins and delay comp on ..record...and boom audio delayed WTF? HD Native with our IZ Ada converter is just horrible. The so called non existent Lynx Aurora latency that people believed is accounted for because it is seen as a 192 is also a no go on PT10 and OSx for us. (we had the lynx before switching to the IZ Ada) The round trip latency is 90 plus samples sometimes more...Since Avid recommends that we record with delay comp off no matter if you have HDNative or HDX all i can say again is WTF?!
I've seen many a poster with Windows systems proclaim that I must be seeing things, User Error, and claim that i'm pulling a chicken little. LMFAO! ok...yeah..sure...Then maybe it's OS specific? Anyone else with an OSx setup and only HDNative and/or HDX care to chime in. Regular PT10 users are also welcomed..if you have a legacy product/converter..I don't think the issue applies to you as far as i've seen from other posters chiming in.

BTW to the rest of the non-believers.. is it not odd to all of you that no official word has come down to calm this thread down by totally refuting and shutting off my so called rhetoric and unnecessary ranting? I would absolutely love to be wrong here..I'm begging to be...seriously. I'd rather it be pilot error...honestly.

Dennis
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  #45  
Old 02-15-2012, 04:22 AM
sfere1 sfere1 is offline
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Default Re: Record Offset for 3rd Party Hardware? WTF!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by soybalm View Post
I use an M Audiophile 192 PCI slaved to an Apogee Mini Me via SPDIF and I don't have any problems at all. I did have problems with plug in latency but the recent ADC fixed that. I agree though that they should have it and it should be automatic like Nuendo. I like how Nuendo figures out the round trip which is way more honest
Did you take an audio file off your drive lined up at a bar...route it out of an output and then back to an input...zoomed in and checked to see if the files lined up? Down to 1 sample? Tried it with delay comp on and off no plug ins? on with plug ins? Unless you've done that how do you know you don't have a problem? not being a d*ck but you haven't stated whether you've tested your rig in that manner.


Dennis
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  #46  
Old 02-15-2012, 09:11 AM
Carl Lie Carl Lie is offline
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Default Re: Record Offset for 3rd Party Hardware? WTF!!

People are confused because we've gone off the original topic into testing HD with Avid hardware.

I don't think anyone is trying to throw this off.

C
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  #47  
Old 02-16-2012, 01:50 AM
scottgreiner scottgreiner is offline
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Default Re: Record Offset for 3rd Party Hardware? WTF!!

Which is why I asked if the original posters were on HD or non HD...

Dennis, did you have the "compensate for I/O delay" checkboxes checked in the I/O Setup page? This is important. And for the record, running my HD software in non HD (core audio) removes these checkboxes from the I/O Setup page

It's been said by DigiTech Support that the core audio device is supposed report this latency/delay and compensation is automatic, but I have my doubts...
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  #48  
Old 02-16-2012, 05:03 AM
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panamajack panamajack is offline
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Default Re: Record Offset for 3rd Party Hardware? WTF!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by scottgreiner View Post
Which is why I asked if the original posters were on HD or non HD...
The OP has morphed the thread. The first post was a rant as to why there is no way to enter an adjustment for the record offset caused by the D/A from the first audio track followed by the A/D as subsequent audio tracks are laid down. In the course of thread-subscribers testing their systems, it has now been postulated that the "delay compensation" is not working correctly with the new HDX cards, even when using Avid's own interfaces.

The OP's initial post was while testing with third party devices, but he has now acquired HDX cards and a late model Avid interface, and is dissatisfied with the apparent dysfunctional performance of the PT10HD and HDX delay compensation.

My presumption is all this is pertinent to PT10HD, either running with HDX, an Avid Native card, or PT10HD with a third party interface.
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  #49  
Old 02-16-2012, 10:15 AM
Carl Lie Carl Lie is offline
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Default Re: Record Offset for 3rd Party Hardware? WTF!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by scottgreiner View Post
Which is why I asked if the original posters were on HD or non HD...

Dennis, did you have the "compensate for I/O delay" checkboxes checked in the I/O Setup page? This is important. And for the record, running my HD software in non HD (core audio) removes these checkboxes from the I/O Setup page

It's been said by DigiTech Support that the core audio device is supposed report this latency/delay and compensation is automatic, but I have my doubts...
My test had the compensate for I/O checked. Done on pt10 HDX with 8x8x8 Avid interface.

The delay is not enough to drive me nuts but the fact is I don't think those checkboxes are working correctly. The other point is that since it works with delay comp on (until you add plugs that delay) it should work with it off.

The test is easy and two of us have gotten the same results. Avid has said nothing which bothers Dennis more than it does me but I am irritated by the lack of a reply.

C
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  #50  
Old 02-16-2012, 12:06 PM
scottgreiner scottgreiner is offline
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Default Re: Record Offset for 3rd Party Hardware? WTF!!

Based on the information from DTS in another related thread stating that core audio devices report their latency to the Protools engine, I did some tests. Using an audio blip on one track, fed to an output and physically looped back to another input, and recorded on an adjacent track; I discovered that none of my available core audio interfaces work properly (actually it's Protools that isn't functioning properly!). The Mac's internal "sound card", Protools placed the recorded results 32 samples late, and with an M-Audio USB interface, 66 samples late. Ticking the "minimize latency" checkbox changed these numbers slightly, but the result never lined up with the original blip.

Glad I kept my "vintage" HD rig.

Quote:
Originally Posted by panamajack
My presumption is all this is pertinent to PT10HD, either running with HDX, an Avid Native card, or PT10HD with a third party interface.
It is indeed all pertinent. If Protools doesn't know what the convertor's latency is, and can't place overdubs correctly in the timeline, it certainly can't properly calculate ADC with channel inserts. Bummer. I hope Avid will fix it.
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