Where is 12.8?

[moshuajusic]

1:30

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jp4I9shmrE

[noiseboyuk]

Originally Posted by TimothyJohn

100% agree. Loops, drum machines, etc., can be fun, but are just facsimiles of the real thing. It's the interaction, unpredictable variables, expanding and contracting tempi, dynamics, rapport between musicians... that's where the gold is...

Good Lord. I don't want to drag this epic thread off on a total tangent, but we've now had over 40 years of electronic music spawning scores of genres which are listened to and enjoyed by literally billions - and people are still arguing that only interaction between real musicians is artistically valid?

Sorry, rant over, carry on with the Curious Absence Of Twelve Point Eight everyone. I'm off to listen to Trans Europe Express (1976).

[latweek]

Nope, he is comparing the obvious difference between:

1) a closed, fixed loop of unchangeable audio events

and,

2) "the interaction, unpredictable variables, expanding and contracting tempi, dynamics, rapport between musicians".

This does not equate to "electronic music is not artistically valid".

[Watagushu2013]

To loop or not to loop, that's the question!

[arche3]

Originally Posted by jscomposer

1:30

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jp4I9shmrE

He used an arpegiator. Not a loop. This is in fact a very common method of producing and writing these days. He could of played the arpegios as well. But the program did it for him.

Not the same as loops that are included in protools

Originally Posted by 25ghosts

I dont know of anyone who does electronic composition (Anything with a Computer that involves using Sample / VI Based Composition) that doesn't at one point use a loop. Either to sample a sound from or use as an entity.

Stylus RMX - if you will is nothing but a loop player. It is just highly limited but if you want TwentyFour-Style car-chase 16th - it is great.

Logic deals with loops fantastically - very easy to make them blend in. NI Maschine deals with them - AKAI MPC Deals with them.

Most folks I know using Protools are straight Recording Engineers - They Record bands and what not. Never do any composition. Which probably explains why Protools can still get away with being the most unfriendly composition-tool on the planet.

If you wanna mess with loops there are fantastic plugs and other DAWs like Ableton (Never used it but people swear on it) to achieve the shortcomings of PT. Transfuser being other one which can do some amazing things....

I've worked on 100s of songs as a producer in NY and LA. From urban to pop music. I've not worked with 1 hip hop producer or pop music/EDM programmer that used premade loops. Over the last 15 years on all the major labels. Sampling a record and using that is not the same as the Avid premade loops. Not even close.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[moshuajusic]

Originally Posted by arche3

He used an arpegiator. Not a loop. This is in fact a very common method of producing and writing these days. He could of played the arpegios as well. But the program did it for him.

Pardon my ignorance, but an arpeggiator plays all those different sounds at the same time and cycles them through chord progressions from hitting just 1 key? He made it sound like he literally just stumbled on a sound (or loop?) that he liked, couldn't figure out how to "write" something with it, so just held the key down and the "arp" spit out that complex progression. With your experience, can you tell whether he at least had to program those different elements of the sample or program the chord progression? If he really just picked a sample/loop, hit 1 key and got ALL that, "writing" is a bit of a stretch, and it seems even Mike Will would agree. "I was just like, maaaaan... just held that **** down. [chuckle] y'nahmsayin, it's a arp!" lol

(I don't care if this is all OT. The original topic is rather useless and depressing at this point.)

[electrodaddy]

Coming up to 6 months since 12.7. I've let my plan lapse. Avid now have my 30 day grace period to release 12.8 and make it amazing. If it's just Atmos and nothing else then this where I get off and stay as I am.

[JFreak]

Originally Posted by electrodaddy

Coming up to 6 months since 12.7. Avid now have my 30 day grace period to release 12.8 and make it amazing. If it's just Atmos and nothing else then this where I get off and stay as I am.

I'm sure is just as great as it was when demoed at the trade show... We'll just have to wait for it for some reason.

[lesbrunn]

Originally Posted by electrodaddy

Coming up to 6 months since 12.7. I've let my plan lapse. Avid now have my 30 day grace period to release 12.8 and make it amazing. If it's just Atmos and nothing else then this where I get off and stay as I am.

It's been long. For me, all I need is a rock-solid workhorse that can use CPU efficiently, that doesn't grind to a halt when you push it hard, that is much more tolerant of 3rd party plugins. Avid says they are improving MIDI, and that's long overdue. Hopefully, they should be able to achieve that without breaking other stuff...

We need a DAW that's less finicky about the hardware it's run on and the software that's run in it, that can perform all the tasks required of it smoothly, without crashing. If that is properly done I would consider all additional features a bonus (again provided other things are not broken in the process!)

[25ghosts]

Originally Posted by arche3

He used an arpegiator. Not a loop. This is in fact a very common method of producing and writing these days. He could of played the arpegios as well. But the program did it for him.

Not the same as loops that are included in protools

I've worked on 100s of songs as a producer in NY and LA. From urban to pop music. I've not worked with 1 hip hop producer or pop music/EDM programmer that used premade loops. Over the last 15 years on all the major labels. Sampling a record and using that is not the same as the Avid premade loops. Not even close.

Sorry... I was not aware that the discussion was only about pre-made-only loops.

I was referring to loops in general. Pre-Made, Self-Made whatever-made. 1,2,4....8 bars repeating them-selves.

The abstraction of "Looping" in 2017 (At least in modern software) is not some company who recorded 4 bars and set the in/out-point so that it would repeat itself to a certain tempo... It is about re-useability. Even recording engineers use this abstraction -> get the session guitarist to lay down 4 bars of great rhythm and copy/paste those bars and re-use them in the session. Looping is used all the time even by those who believe they dont use loops.

BTW - all those hip hop producers you mention - I doubt that they played 300 bars on the MPC. Most likely they played 2 or 4 and repeated those 100 times within the MPC or whichever sequencer they used. An MPC or any midi sequencer is the definition of a Loop-based workflow.

All I am saying is that Protools is black-boxing the power of looping and re-useability. Looping is not something to be ashamed of nor does it make someone less a musician. Looping is the base of all music. Patterns. I know of very little music that does not repeat itself all time. Any Drummer is just looping himself every bar and putting in fills here and there (If he weren't generating a recognizable pattern, we'd fire him).
The Singer is looping him/herself 3 times in verses using diff. words and 3 or 5 times in Choruses using mostly same words. If the bass-player does 8th rhythm the entire song thru' he would only need to play one single note, get the seq. to repeat that while the rest of the musicians wait for themselves to repeat themselves and grab a beer... Perhaps that is the reason why all bass players are so calm and cool