Anyone else interested in Expansion Options for PT LE hardware???

[gen-xtargetmarket]

Yes, I knew what feature-set I was buying into when I purchased my 001, and this is not a complaint at all. Far from it.

Personally, I would love for Digi to develop an upgrade for the 001 that would enable users to have more physical digital and analog I/O. I only need the digital, but I'm sure others would like more analog I/O (although this can currently be accomplished with existing outboard A/D/D/A converters). The box I have in mind would allow for an additional 24 channels of ADAT Lightpipe I/O and then whatever other doodads would be necessary to appeal to the market and make this thing sell. Only 16 channels and some more analog I/O? I'm still buying one, maybe two, at that feature-set.

Perhaps a box that would accept the strange little SCSI-looking cable from the PCI card and then have a pass-through in order to connect to the existing 001 box? You could then daisychain a few of these boxes in order to increase your I/O options. This is probably not possible due to existing architecture, but I wouldn't know.
Better yet; a Digidesign Proprietary Firewire box so that 002 users would also benefit and then Digi would be able to target more users (and said user's $$$).

And to answer the marketing types as to why anyone would need this (let's put it to the marketing guys another way) or actually PAY for this; I use a digital mixer and no longer wish to suffer the losses of multiple D/A/A/D conversions. Not to mention having to adjust for the additional latency of the channels that are leaving the 001 through the analog outs.

Is it important to me? Yes. So much so, that I've been investigating competing developer's offerings and solutions as a possible alternative. I'm willing to drop up to $2000 with them, but would rather continue to invest with Digi as I've been with them for years. The migration wouldn't be too painful as the majority of plug-in developers now cater to the entire host processing market and some even ship all versions in each package.

If anyone else is interested, or has relevant comments, please let it be known.
And for all the wise-acres... notice that I said my budget was $2000 and is not quite up to ProTools|HD territory [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

Thanks for the bandwidth,

gen-x

[gen-xtargetmarket]

Bumpin'

[gen-xtargetmarket]

Wow, I got pretty good response to this from the PC side of ProTools LE. I was hoping, and kind of expecting, my Mac Brothers and Sisters to put in some really good input. Here are some highlights from the PC side of things. Please throw your comments in here too. And try to keep from bashing the beige-box crowd! [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Originally posted by da BaSsTaRd!:
i say a modular approach to PTLE is a great idea and would enable digi to start taking sales away from all the products we spend money on to compliment our 001s. i own a AI3, for example. if digi had a comparable product or if i could use multiple 001's on the same system, i may have given digi my $$$ instead of whoever bought alesis...

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Originally posted by gabriel_p:
Db, your right, and I've always stood by the idea of modular systems,heck, I've started topics about this. You stack your gear or units as much as you need, as much as your work requires, as much as your willing to $pend, as much as this moment in your carrear deserves, or whatever picks your fancy.

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Originally posted by marcusb:
What you describe is exactly the way TDM works today. Yes it is expensive but it does exactly what you want.

I don't think digi are interested in marketing a cheaper product to compete with themselves!

Cheers,
Marcus

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Originally posted by gen-xtargetmarket:
As long as the software feature sets of LE and TDM remain the way that they are (no SMPTE ruler, lack of Beat Detective, no video sync,etc.) I don't think that there will be much in the way of competition between any of the existing products.
The pricing strata are additional factors that will continue to seperate one product from gouging into the other. The cost of even a used Mix system, just to get 24 channels of physical I/O is far beyond attainable/justifiable for many. A sub $1000 'Farm I/O Firewire Box' is not and is money in the Digi coffers, as opposed to a current or potential purchaser seeking to have their needs met elsewhere.

Although the system that I am describing is superficially similar to a Mix system, it remains far from being one.

The only thing that I can see as being a conflict of interest is that HD owners would expect to be able to connect said imaginary Firewire box to their rigs, thereby cutting into the pricier HD hardware sales; although this is easily defeatable in software.

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Originally posted by gerax:
If you surf the DUC searching for similar topics you'll find lots of them; I'm in the same situation as you: need more hardware I/O (digital mostly), and my most recourring dream is one where one morning I open the Digi WEB page and find they put out a new PCI card that has 16 ch of ADAT lightpipe and is also capable of S/MUX to get 8 channes of 96KHZ I/O; I'd run out and get one with my A/D converters of choice. The world would be a better place. Other manufacturers are already implementig multi I/O on their soundcards (have you checked out the MOTU 2408MK?), but I swear nobody of us wants to change software (this is my only complain, I don't find myself as comfortable with other softwares as I am with Pro Tools).

Let's hope that after a lot of crying and moaning Digi will answer our call, like they did with the XP drivers: if nobody asks they are never going to develop it.

Keep asking

L.G.

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Originally posted by anthrock:
This will do the job. It's a painless upgrade. Gets you under 2K with the 001.

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Digima xLT/

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Originally posted by Rick Irvine:
I think Digi is interested in any product that will make them money,the 001 has made them a ton, I'm sure.The new expantion of thier company shows, that the price point for this piece is right on the mark.

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Originally posted by gen-xtargetmarket:
Unfortunately, the Digimax does not allow one any additional I/O. It must be connected to existing I/O on your LE system. Not exactly what I was speaking of in my original post.

I perceive Digidesign's strategy to be one of selling hardware, hence the proprietary nature of everything that they release. Plug-in formats, control surfaces, etc. After the release of the Control24, there haven't been any new third party controllers or hardware that have been supported by Digi. They are closing (have closed) the door on this. Radikal Technologies (sp?) had to figure out the HUI implementation on their own and, under ProTools, their controller can not use their own Master Fader and there are other issues related to the displays. Same goes for the DA7's HUI emulation mode. The HUI has no Master Fader the 'Scribble Strips' are limited to four characters, so that is what every emulation is gonna have too.
As long as the only available option for third parties is to 'reverse engineer' (sorta) various emulations, their products will always be somewhat less tightly integrated with the ProTools world. You gotta do what you gotta do. It's marketing, mindshare, and staying in business. More power to 'em.
Sorry for the semi-off-topicness. Just trying to explain the situation in greater detail for those that have misunderstood.
So, every dollar spent on another company's solution is a dollar that is not going to Digidesign. Nothing exists to add greater functionality to the LE based systems. There are a lot of things that will 'enhance' them. You can buy more Mic Pres, more MIDI I/O, etc., but these are just optional enhancements to the existing system. There is nothing that will get you more audio I/O since Digi wants your I/O money (recent release of MIDI box supports this) and they want to differentiate the products enough from each other so that a cheaper one doesn't cut into the more expensive one. The recent cancellation of the 001 Factory Bundle is an example of this strategy to protect the more expensive 002.
This isn't an attack on Digidesign at all. It is just that they could easily earn more money if they released a proprietary FireWire Box with more audio I/O on it. Digital I/O for me, please!
FireWire has the potential to work with all of the other LE systems and would make everyone is happy. FireWire would also expand the base of potential target customers (laptop users) in a way that PCI could not. Personally, I'm not too hot on the PCI card idea since it would just eat up another valuable slot.

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Originally posted by anthrock:
I'm not exactly sure what your asking for, but the Digimax offers 8 additional digital I/O's which is what I thought you are looking for. Connected to the 001 gives you a total of 16 total channels of analog/digital inputs, not including the 001's own S/PDIF.

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Originally posted by gen-xtargetmarket:
The problem would be that the Digimax sends its digital audio into the ProTools world via a Digidesign manufactured I/O box. In order to get the converted analog signals onto (and off of) your hard disk, it must be connected to the existing ADAT Lightpipe connector that is on the Digi 001's PCI card; thereby consuming the 001's Lightpipe connector. Still leaves us with 8 channels of Lightpipe I/O although the conversion is now happening via the Digimax instead of the 001.
The Digimax has no option for allowing ProTools to recognize it and use it directly.

This is not what others and myself are looking for. I have a digital mixer with 32 channels of digital I/O. I would like to keep everything in the digital domain for as long as possible. No additional conversions to/from analog.
There is not an existing piece of hardware that will allow PT LE to have access to any additional outputs beyond what the 001, 002, or Toolbox offer.

That's it.

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Originally posted by Steve Moore:
I also have a 32 track DMixer. 8 channels of litepipe is a BIG drawback (ultimately a killer). But then giving us the ability to have 32 track all digital studios for 3 grand probably isn't what DIGI has in mind. I don't expect to see it anytime soon for LE. (And don't say 002, I want 32 automated faders).

I did not understand this limitation when I bought 001. I know I should have but I didn't (in spite of a month at the DUC BEFORE purchase) and I fear there are many more like me. It's not that obvious unless you hang here and ask alot of questions for awhile.

I went with Pro Tools for compatibility and 'industry standard'. However, IMO the distinctions are rapidly blurring. I recently called a few studios here and in two major metros and guess what? they all had the ability to read/open/transfer files from all major DAWs. I don't use alot of soft plugs so the compatibility issue, for me is probably moot anyway.

As these other programs mature (not quite there yet - but almost) DIGI's proprietary business plan may bite them in the ass. If I don't get more litepipe and better MIDI soon I'm quite likely to go the way of Okion and others.

I don't care about video post production. This seems like an entirely different market to me. I don't care about SMPTE or alot of other TDM features.

I just want to make music. I believe there are millions of others out there just like me. Save your high end stuff for your TDM BIG Boys, DIGI, but continue to ignore the working musician and you will ultimately lose a very large market to your competitors.

DIGI: The real market in the future IS the semi-pro market. You will never have millions of high end studios (in fact the number of high end production houses is on the decline) but you will have millions of musicans all over the planet doing more and more of their own tracking and in many cases mixing. This market is expanding and will be growing for years to come as the cost comes into the range of more working buds.

I don't mind paying for multiple 001's, even at a premium. I would stay PT that way. Even if I had to use another MIDI sequencer.

But refusing to let me stack 001's is crap. Why doesn't DIGI want to sell more 001's? Make it so the ONLY box you can add is the 001. No problem. You would sell 2-3 times the number of 001's. Max it out at 32. No video. Limited MIDI. Limit other high end features.

Bottom line: DIGI would sell alot more 001 units, wouldn't hurt TDM at all and they wouldn't piss all their 001 clients into defecting.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">There is a tiny bit more, but the above is more than enough. Please add your comments. Smart-assed or otherwise [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif[/img]

[Bob Olhsson]

If you let go of the concept of having it all on a single computer, you can do amazing things routing between two time code locked Pro Tools systems. I've been doing this for ten years!

[MissHiss]

I really like the idea of 24 channels of lightpipe I/O. I'd even be happy with an additional 8 channels. This would allow you to bypass the 001's converters even if you were recording on every available track.

[Chompers]

Gen-x..
its been talked about for years, its overdone, no one has the energy to deal with this subject anymore. Let alone read your extra long post about the PC people talking.
We all want more options. Just... it aint gonna happen.

[gen-xtargetmarket]

Well, at least three Mac people posted within the space of a few minutes. For that alone, I am grateful enough. [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

[valvebrother]

I agree %1000 and would also pay a reasonable sum for the ability to add more I/O. Specifically, more 96 kHz I/O over lightpipe .

This is THE issue that will most likely drive me out from the Digi fold.

Im simply not sure if Im willing to pay anywhere between 5-10K for what would really be (to me) an I/O upgrade (HD system).

Im not really interested in tons more DSP power; Im more inclined to mix and use effects in the analog realm after the last few albums Ive made. I used almost no plugins on the last few albums (my G4 400 LE system handle them easily); and was tremendously pleased with the results.

So, since this is a mix related issue, actually, all I care about are the additional outputs, with the ability to do 96K over dual-lightpipe.

The Digi 002 doesn’t really appeal as a 96K option since Digi failed to implement an ADAT interface that works at 96K. I know there is no clear standard for this, but, they could have had the balls to throw their hat in the ring.

I could care less about OSX, Rewire support, etc.

THIS is THE issue for me; has been for a while now. But, I also agree with Chompers though, this is a dead issue. All that’s left is for folks like me to decide if this is an issue worth switching over.

D

[nukmusic]

What would be nice is if DIGI would release some sort of hot-rod kit(ad/da upgrade kit) for the 001. [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

[gen-xtargetmarket]

valvebrother,

You seem to be in the same boat that I am. I wonder why we haven't noticed each other rowing (uphill?) before! [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif[/img]

I am sooooo close to pulling the trigger on a MOTU 2408MKIII/DP/Nuendo system, mostly over the I/O issue. I have a meeting with a rep in my area on Tuesday (the 8th). Not to mention that any other software package will boost my available horsepower thanks to the second processor in my G4. But, really, it is due to the lack of additional I/O. [img]images/icons/frown.gif[/img]

Dammit, I've been ProTools all my recording life, but I outgrew my home-based editing/tweaking system so soon... [img]images/icons/confused.gif[/img]