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  #101  
Old 01-04-2013, 11:01 AM
Marsdy Marsdy is offline
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Default Re: AVID Must DO Something for AAX DSP

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Originally Posted by spenner View Post
None of this being new is kinda of the point.

With this quote I think it is understood that Felix is not going to answer your questions. EVERYONE arguing in these threads are basically agreeing with Felix's quote, not with you or your Waves source.

This is why I am saying, regardless of what you say, you can't win here. Not that you are looking for a prize or anything like that.

But I'm sure you all will carry on...
Actually I've wasted a whole day on this lunacy so probably but possibly not.

I have to say though, I don't expect everyone to agree with me but I REALLY don't get why so few appear concerned by the poor performance of many 3rd party plug-ins in HDX.
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  #102  
Old 01-04-2013, 11:04 AM
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Oblivion777 Oblivion777 is offline
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Default Re: AVID Must DO Something for AAX DSP

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Originally Posted by Marsdy View Post
I have to say though, I don't expect everyone to agree with me but I REALLY don't get why so few appear concerned by the poor performance of many 3rd party plug-ins in HDX.
Dave - not to repeat my self but your comparison was always based on a "per-chip"-basis. Nothing wrong with that BUT the up to 5x performance stated by Avid was on a "per-card" basis. As I've written before even if you take a 1.6x improvement per chip (as you have stated that's the minimum) and the 2.0x more chips per card that's a 3.2x improvement "per card".
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  #103  
Old 01-04-2013, 11:07 AM
Marsdy Marsdy is offline
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Default Re: AVID Must DO Something for AAX DSP

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Originally Posted by Oblivion777 View Post
Dave - you have to realize that we HDX users are biased to support AAX-DSP. I guess that's entirely human. It's not that I think you are right or wrong; it's a matter of perspective. I still believe that Waves support (or lack thereof) of AAX-DSP is not critical. I still believe that there are AAX-DSP PI's out there available right now that can do the job done. I still believe that Waves's support of AAX-DSP (or lack thereof) will not tilt the table. I still believe that HDX is the future. And I still believe that TDM will get the job done for quite some years to come; not all have and will make the transition to HDX. Not all have to or are able too (financially or because of recall of old projects). I respect that. And I am sure Avid do, too. Still this dose not negate my initial thought: TDM is gone and AAX-DSP is (at least for now) the future.
Agreed.... except for me at least there are some critical PI's missing from HDX that WOULD stop me personally getting the job done. Altiverb for one and the missing HDX delays like Echoboy, Echo Farm and H-Delay plus numerous others.
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  #104  
Old 01-04-2013, 11:14 AM
Marsdy Marsdy is offline
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Default Re: AVID Must DO Something for AAX DSP

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Originally Posted by Oblivion777 View Post
Dave - not to repeat my self but your comparison was always based on a "per-chip"-basis. Nothing wrong with that BUT the up to 5x performance stated by Avid was on a "per-card" basis. As I've written before even if you take a 1.6x improvement per chip (as you have stated that's the minimum) and the 2.0x more chips per card that's a 3.2x improvement "per card".
I stand corrected in this case but usually I have made a point of comparing the per chip performance with the HD3 system I have. And Avid HAVE claimed HDX1 is equivalent to an HD4 or HD5 system. Well not in my case because I like McDSP and Sonnox plug-ins! THIS is why I'm claiming Avid have in some cases been disingenuous with it's claims.
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  #105  
Old 01-04-2013, 11:22 AM
spenner spenner is offline
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Default Re: AVID Must DO Something for AAX DSP

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Originally Posted by Marsdy View Post
Actually I've wasted a whole day on this lunacy so probably but possibly not.

I have to say though, I don't expect everyone to agree with me but I REALLY don't get why so few appear concerned by the poor performance of many 3rd party plug-ins in HDX.
OK.

Hey, there may be some silent skeptics out there. We see what happens to the vocal ones. Haha... J/K

BTW, not sure why I called the Avid guy, feliponk, Felix not once but twice. Sorry about that.
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  #106  
Old 01-04-2013, 11:33 AM
Marsdy Marsdy is offline
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Default Re: AVID Must DO Something for AAX DSP

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Originally Posted by spenner View Post
OK.

Hey, there may be some silent skeptics out there. We see what happens to the vocal ones. Haha... J/K

BTW, not sure why I called the Avid guy, feliponk, Felix not once but twice. Sorry about that.
Well considering there are what 10,000 DUC members? I don't think I've done too badly! It's me against a very small but vocal minority. I can live with that.

I just wish there were more DUC members like Oblivion777 who are at least prepared to debate things in a mature, grown up manner rather than simply hurl insults because they don't happen to agree with me.
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  #107  
Old 01-04-2013, 11:52 AM
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feliponk feliponk is offline
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Default Re: AVID Must DO Something for AAX DSP

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Originally Posted by Marsdy View Post
Regarding As I said above to the Avid guy
David, FYI "The Avid Guy" has a name, Felipe, so a little respect and education will be greatly appreciated, since I have always spoke to you using your name.

No worries here Spenner but I'm not Felix the Cat

Now, since David keeps saying that the TI DSP are 32 bits at its core, I hope this info from the TI Site will clear this to you.

"The TMS320x is the next generation of Texas Instruments' C67x generation of high-performance 32-/64-bit floating-point digital signal processors.
Enhanced C67x+ CPU. The C67x+ CPU is an enhanced version of the C67x CPU used on the C671x DSPs. It is compatible with the C67x CPU but offers significant improvements in speed, code density, and floating-point performance per clock cycle. The CPU natively supports 32-bit fixed-point, 32-bit single-precision floating-point, and 64-bit double-precision floating-point arithmetic."

Regards.
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  #108  
Old 01-04-2013, 12:02 PM
Marsdy Marsdy is offline
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Default Re: AVID Must DO Something for AAX DSP

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Originally Posted by feliponk View Post
David, FYI "T[I]he Avid Guy/I]" has a name, Felipe, so a little respect and education will be greatly appreciated, since I have always spoke to you using your name.

No worries here Spenner but I'm not Felix the Cat

Now, since David keeps saying that the TI DSP are 32 bits at its core, I hope this info from the TI Site will clear this to you.

"The TMS320x is the next generation of Texas Instruments' C67x generation of high-performance 32-/64-bit floating-point digital signal processors.
Enhanced C67x+ CPU. The C67x+ CPU is an enhanced version of the C67x CPU used on the C671x DSPs. It is compatible with the C67x CPU but offers significant improvements in speed, code density, and floating-point performance per clock cycle. The CPU natively supports 32-bit fixed-point, 32-bit single-precision floating-point, and 64-bit double-precision floating-point arithmetic."

Regards.
Sorry Felipe but your name didn't appear in any of your posts as far as I could see. I apologise if I offended you.

Yes I am aware of the chip specs....However....
Quote:
the TI DSP has an instruction for 32X64, where the audio is represented as 32 bit and the coefficient that is multiplying it is 64 bit . The output of the multiplication although 64 in the DSP cannot be multiplied again in single cycle full resolution, so it is truncated to 32 bit again, adding noise.

you could say the data flow is 32 bit but coefficients are 64 bit

A true 64 bit processor takes the full 64 bit output and multiplies it again by 64 bit coefficients! It is possible to accomplish this on the TI DSP but it will cost a lot.
From the spec sheet you are referring to:
Quote:
"The CPU natively supports 32-bit fixed-point, 32-bit single-precision
floating-point, and 64-bit double-precision floating-point arithmetic."
My source:
Quote:
all true, but not single operation multiply in double precision. and since multiplication of double precision is key to double precision processing, then at DP we have less then 1/2 the performance
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  #109  
Old 01-04-2013, 12:10 PM
Marsdy Marsdy is offline
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Default Re: AVID Must DO Something for AAX DSP

and this from Dave Tremblay of Avid
Quote:
The chip itself is capable of performing single OR double precision floating point operations natively in hardware. Double precision does indeed take more clock cycles to complete the operation than single precision.
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  #110  
Old 01-04-2013, 12:42 PM
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feliponk feliponk is offline
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Default Re: AVID Must DO Something for AAX DSP

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Originally Posted by Marsdy View Post
Sorry Felipe but your name didn't appear in any of your posts as far as I could see. I apologise if I offended you.
No problem, issue solved
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