Avid Pro Audio Community

Avid Pro Audio Community

How to Join & Post  •  Community Terms of Use  •  Help Us Help You

Knowledge Base Search  •  Community Search  •  Learn & Support


Avid Home Page

Go Back   Avid Pro Audio Community > Legacy Products > Pro Tools 10

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #11  
Old 07-21-2012, 08:15 AM
relaxo relaxo is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: NYC
Posts: 1,534
Default Re: Protools OS

Quote:
Originally Posted by Atlantida View Post
What would be so wrong with a Protools exclusive OS
People need to run 100 other apps and plugins besides PT.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Atlantida View Post
no bloat ware, non-needed services/background cluttering up the system
What is bloatware? I don't have any. And nothing clutters up the system. This is 2012. If someone's OSX 10.4+ doesn't run well in 2012 then they need to hire a different tech guy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Atlantida View Post
If you want iTunes, Logic, Final Cut, etc... dual boot into what ever.
Why not have it like it is now? No one wants to be constantly dual booting. That's absurdity. Again, this is 2012. Everything is fine and works great in OSX and has for a long long time now.

Are you an obsessive system cleaner type? I know people that throw out 10k text files because they think that too many of their text files will stress out their system. They won't. A hard drive can have millions of files and run just fine.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 07-21-2012, 08:20 AM
relaxo relaxo is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: NYC
Posts: 1,534
Default Re: Protools OS

Quote:
Originally Posted by Atlantida View Post
I'm not a windows/OSX hater, but isn't it a waste of time making protools for two commercial OS's, when Digidesign could just compile there own linux kernal, tweaked and fine-tuned for their DAW's?
Do not ever underestimate the complexity in designing an OS. If there's anything gets constantly totally botched, it's OS's. OS's are the biggest design challenge in computing. So do you really want to rely on an OS designed by Avid?!? Microsoft, with it's trillions of dollars spent over the last 25 years still can't even make a decently designed OS...and you think Avid is going to get a good OS going?
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 07-21-2012, 08:35 AM
guitardom guitardom is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 6,782
Default Re: Protools OS

Quote:
Originally Posted by Atlantida View Post
What would be so wrong with a Protools exclusive OS with no bloat ware, non-needed services/background cluttering up the system. Only the essentials to run ProTools smooth and solid, that requires no tweaking. A very minimalist aproach. If you want iTunes, Logic, Final Cut, etc... dual boot into what ever.

IDK, if I had that as an option, I'd be all over it.
The issue would come in things like Reason, Bfd, kontakt or other programs that are plugin based (rtas-aax) but also standalone and or can be rewired into PT. it would be a nightmare for compatibility issues for these developers and if they would or could even do it. Them driver compatibility issues w 3rd pary developers. What if they don't see it profitable to create for an isolated platform such as waves right now w aax dsp??

In a dream world I would prefer a version of windows or Mac os that was completely stripped down, far more than currently possible. But systems such as your idea have came about before and usually end up on the storage room floor w books on top of it after a few years.
__________________

pro-tools-pc.com


TRASHER Pro Tools Utility(updated 3-6-18)

HD Native, Avid 16x16, Eleven Rack, Focusrite Clarett 8preX, UA Quad Apollo TB.

Intel I7 6800k
Win 10
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 07-21-2012, 08:41 AM
relaxo relaxo is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: NYC
Posts: 1,534
Default Re: Protools OS

Quote:
Originally Posted by Atlantida View Post
but isn't it a waste of time making protools for two commercial OS's
Yes, you are completely right here.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 07-21-2012, 09:26 AM
rockguitarist1255 rockguitarist1255 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 182
Default Re: Protools OS

Quote:
Originally Posted by guitardom View Post
I have made more albums on windows than I can count and it continues to work 7 days a week for me. Not sure what else a person could ask for.
Right there with you man. I don't care what people say about Windows. It works for me, and whatever works I stick with.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 07-21-2012, 11:29 AM
Bob Nagy Bob Nagy is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 1999
Posts: 111
Default Re: Protools OS

Just for giggles, I'm going to throw in an option here that's from the outer reaches of the solar system. If this ever happens, it's unlikely that we'd see it before PT version 20. But anyway I think it's interesting to ponder (if you like science fiction).

There has been an effort underway for some time now in the open source world called Linux Unified Kernel. If you have not heard about this, it's an attempt to merge Windows support into Linux at the driver level. Many people have heard of Wine, a user level Windows compatability package for Linux. This allows some Windows apps to run on Linux. Adding support at the driver level would allow more Windows apps to run on Linux, perhaps even something like PT, which has a collection of drivers.

Extend this concept further forward, and imagine also adding OSX support to Linux, at the user and driver level. At that point, in theory, it would be possible to run both Windows and OSX apps on Linux. As well as actual Linux apps, of course.

Ok, so is this just a game for the mind, or is this even feasible ? I strongly tend to think that anything is possible. My experiences over a few decades of programming has made that clear to me. A couple examples :

1) The Windows version of Pro Tools, which I created in 1997 when I worked at Digi, was built on top of a library of translations. The program still "thinks" it's on OSX, but this library translates the OSX calls into native Windows calls. I also find it interesting that this library (at that time) was contained in a single windows DLL module, and it's total size was about 1 MB. In other words, in a very simplistic way of speaking, the majority of the differences between OSX and Windows could be expressed in only 1 MB of binary code. That's not a lot, when you consider the size of the OS in total.

2) Back in the 90s, I saw Virtual PC run for the first time. I put a Windows NT install CD into a Mac laptop (PowerPC), and installed and ran it. Virtual PC not only translated the instruction set between x86 and PowerPC, it also emulated a complete set of PC hardware which the Mac of course does not have.

Example like this have shown me that anything is possible. It's just a "small matter of programming" before it's a reality. There is no impossible hurdle here, only time, interest, and effort. So it could happen that there is an open source OS someday that can run any app you want. This could allow Avid to produce a single version of PT instead of two, and still allow all of us users to run any other apps we need. Without rebooting, without using multiple machines, and without being boxed into a Pro Tools Appliance type of environment.

By the way, I suggested exactly what the OP proposed when I worked at Digi, probably sometime around 1999 or 2000. Everybody thought I was an outer space alien for even thinking it. For all of the reasons stated by everybody in this thread, this idea is still not practical now. However, there is always the future... And I still think the idea is basically a good one, eventually.

For Avid to be able to control the OS would be a win. There are many complicated and difficult needs for a DAW, and no current OS is truly built to provide all of this. At best, any OS is only adequate, but not optimum. And then there are the periods of deep effort required when a new OS version comes out. Often Avid needs to expend lots of resources to resolve issues caused by OS changes, test and guarantee performance on each new OS version, etc. Being in control of all of that would be a big benefit, but would also not come for free. It would take a lot of work to roll your own OS.

All of this right now is of course just a dream. But many things that are now commonplace also started as a dream. I have seen many changes in the computing world since I started working in this industry. It will certainly be interesting to see what happens in the next few decades. Although some things like this seem impossibly large, I can't rule anything out. We'll see...
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 07-21-2012, 03:02 PM
Pinball Wizard Pinball Wizard is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Silver Spring, Maryland USA
Posts: 181
Default Re: Protools OS

Atlantida: I am 100% with you on this.

A few comments.....

1. One of the places I work has a 2 year old SSL console. It runs on Linux.

2. In my own rooms and in EVERY room that I freelance in there are two computers. One is used only for the editing. The other is used for all of the ancillary stuff. The main computers are networked with Isis but don't go on the internet....that's what the secondary computers are for.

3. I don't understand why a 3rd party plug-in manufacturer should have any more trouble writing to the proposed 'appliance' standard than any other proprietary standard such as AAX, TDM, or RTAS.

Somewhere on Ideascale there is a proposal for PT on Linux. I like this idea even better.
__________________
Main Workstation: Pro Tools 2018, Windows 10, HP Z440 Xeon 6 core Broadwell 3.6GHz, 32 GB DDR4, Omni, Sync HD, UAD 2 PCIe card

Edit Room: Pro Tools 8LE 8.0.5, Windows 10, HP Z400 Xeon 6 core 12 GB DDR3, Eleven R, UAD 2 PCIe card

Both systems old & previously Avid qualified
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 07-21-2012, 04:03 PM
CME CME is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Ardmore OK
Posts: 3,205
Default

While it does seem tempting. How much of an improvement would there really be? Other DAWS and apps are very stable on both windows and OSX. There are also very stable interface drivers and "console" apps to run the interfaces. So it's not the current OS's as much as it's the app running on them. IMO at this point PT needs a fresh rewrite. By people who really know how to optimize and write stable code. That would show greater improvements than a new Pro Tools OS. At least IMO.

That said Allen and Heath ilive consoles run on a version of Linux. It could have its benefits. I'm just saying Pro Tools itself needs to be stable and efficient. Then let them try to make a custom OS.
__________________
2009 Mac Pro - Dual X5650 Xeon 6-core 2.66Ghz procs, 48GB of Ram, SATA 3 and USB 3.0 PCIe cards. R9 280X video card. macOS Sierra. Harrison Mixbus 32C, Studio One 3, Reaper, and pro tools 12 when I have to.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 07-21-2012, 09:32 PM
Shan's Avatar
Shan Shan is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Vancouver, B.C.
Posts: 13,547
Default Re: Protools OS

Quote:
Originally Posted by Atlantida View Post
I'm not a windows/OSX hater, but isn't it a waste of time making protools for two commercial OS's, when Digidesign could just compile there own linux kernal, tweaked and fine-tuned for their DAW's? I mean with the amount of time spent getting it to run smoothly on two OS's that always have major software releases with a new bag of bugs to deal with, wouldn't it be better to have their own to have full control over.

Am I totally out to lunch here?
You can read the pros/cons of DigiLinux and the DigiOS here, which include all the recycled posts/comments above and even responses from Avid. It's been a topic of much discussion over the years.

Shane
__________________
Pro Tools Power User Editing

Give your plug-ins a facelift...and skin 'em!
__________________

"Music should be performed by the musician, not by the engineer."

Michael Wagener 25th July 2005, 02:59 PM

__________________

Pro Tools|HD Native 9.0.1 | Pro Tools|HDX 10.2 | Studio One | REAPER 4.22 | HD OMNI | HoboMac Pro 2.26Ghz Quad-Core | W7 Ultimate 64-bit
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 07-21-2012, 11:20 PM
JFreak's Avatar
JFreak JFreak is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Tampere, Finland
Posts: 17,191
Default Re: Protools OS

Quote:
Originally Posted by getz76 View Post
Zero third party plug-ins? That could be a problem.
Why wouldn't 3rd parties all of a sudden continue releasing plugins? It's all about SDK which Avid creates. For now, the SDK is available for OSX and Windows, but there is no reason why Avid could not make a Linux SDK -- then 3rd party developers will just have to compile against another platform but it's not that much different compared to releasing OSX PPC yesteryear and OSX Intel today.

Of course, that would mean 100% closed system and all plugins would have to be 64-bit AAX compatible. Now that sounds more like a solution
__________________
Janne
What we do in life, echoes in eternity.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
changing from protools 8 audio only to protools 8 with video support djkaz macOS 5 09-04-2013 05:00 PM
ProTools Shortcut keys suddenly became disabled in ProTools LE 8.0.5? jgbsound 003, Mbox 2, Digi 002, original Mbox, Digi 001 (Win) 5 08-03-2011 02:08 AM
Protools 8 LE/ Error 5000 / Protools freezes constantly HELP! G ray 003, Mbox 2, Digi 002, original Mbox, Digi 001 (Mac) 0 04-12-2011 08:09 PM
Sending protools projects to other protools users online kdtufan 003, Mbox 2, Digi 002, original Mbox, Digi 001 (Win) 1 01-24-2008 08:18 PM
setting record levels into ProTools with the intent of mixing in ProTools Felix Tips & Tricks 507 02-05-2002 11:17 PM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:18 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited. Forum Hosted By: URLJet.com