HEAT, NEVE 8048 Listening Challenge

[Tom Graham]

Hi again...
I'm happy to report that this is fixed and now reporting the correct mix you preferred in section 5...
Thanks for your support,
Tom

[groovmon]

I'm just curious how much people can really hear the difference. This test doesn't show that because it tells you when the program material changes. This introduces an involuntary desire to hear a difference that may or may not be perceptible if the three different mixes were spliced together at random points.

A real test would be to change the mixes randomly and have the participant mark the times that the mix changed and then note whether the mix was Mix1 Mix2 or Mix3. After finding out the results, THEN the participant could be informed which mix was Heat, Neve or just PT.

My guess, believe me I would fail, is that most people claiming to hear huge differences would find themselves quite humbled.

[Chris Watkins]

Funny, I picked the 8048 more.. But in section 2, even in a loud enviroment
on soso monitors, I could swear the thump was off on two of them with
the kick drum, which was an interesting creation sound in the first place...
But that was what I was listening for was width, clearity and thump. Albeit,
especially against heat; it was hard the heat ones almost seemed like in one or
two sections they were a db or two low; which I could understand that a "makeup" would need to be applied all things being equal. Even if "heat" is
doing that automaticly; I could see boosting a db or two vs final if it is indeed
doing compression; but what do I know.

[Chris Watkins]

I'm curious;
If you didn't use default HEAT settings; did you HEAT until it sounded like
the NEVE mix?
Cause there was one out of 3 seemed different; and then I assume that's
the vanilla PT mix. Which was left flat with no other changes? right?

[Tom Graham]

Originally Posted by Chris Watkins

I'm curious;
If you didn't use default HEAT settings; did you HEAT until it sounded like
the NEVE mix?
Cause there was one out of 3 seemed different; and then I assume that's
the vanilla PT mix. Which was left flat with no other changes? right?

We started with a HEAT setting we liked and then A/B'd against the NEVE mix and ultimately dialed it in a bit more. The regular Pro Tools mix is 'flat' as you say... No added sauce to make it sound like anything else.

We seemed to find the 10 and 2 (on the clock face) settings were the good standard starting point. In other words 10 O'Clock on the drive led to 2 O'Clock on the tone - and vice versa.

Hope this helps....

[booter]

TG!!!

Did you guys do a blind ABX test on this?? Just read about this and Manny and I are putting out a chapter on this ... really cool info.

Cheers my friend! =)

[alopor2012]

what are the different from heat and neve?which one is the best ...

[pmklein]

This thread just goes to show how hopelessly flawed and subjective these listening tests are. If you've got a NEVE 8048, why would you just use it as a summing mixer anyway? That's like riding in a Bentley for the sole purpose of the comfort of the leather seats... Also, it was stated that the HEAT mix was tweaked against the 8048. So, when the mixer thought it was right, he was actually wrong in terms of what he was satisfied with initially. This gets into the chasing shadows realm. I mean, if even the creators and marketers of the product have to reference an actual 8048 to get it right then where does that leave the average mixing genius? I'm sure it's a useful plugin but these listening tests really don't prove all that much.

[jasonthurley]

Interesting......

I'll start by saying that the unknown order/mix is the best way to get truth from your ears... I have SO MANY times not even touched a fader or EQ when someone was asking me to adjust something for their ears... and all the sudden they say "Right there" Perfect" I never moved a thing... the blind listening test does just that... allows you to really use your ears.

Once I listened through the first time It was much easier to tell the mixes apart from the 1st "lower volume/less compressed" area in the mix as you could really feel/hear the difference in dymanics and Tone.... I must say I guessed that the "warmest" sounding mix (Sounds a bit more full in the mids/low mids) was the Heat. From there since the dymanics change and it sounds as though the compression kicks in at a greater ratio the mixes seem to start to blend... By the end I couldn't tell them apart.... so maybe for lower volumes Id prefer the Neve sound but as SPL comes up and compression is involved they level out.

Granted I am listening in Sony MDR7506 so I am lacking some low end aswell as air.

Oh and yes I do agree about the lack of bass (it should be nice and rich and similar in volume to the kick but seems to get lost although has a nice tone).

[headstack]

Originally Posted by jasonthurley

Interesting......

I have SO MANY times not even touched a fader or EQ when someone was asking me to adjust something for their ears... and all the sudden they say "Right there" Perfect" I never moved a thing...

Is this a New York Thing?

First "New York Compression" and now "New York E.Q." lol

Used to do the disengaged EQ tweak often on dance and Hip Hop things when we knew the bottom end of things were already getting WAY out of hand.

"yeah, but make each track REALLY fat!!"



I scored quite differently depending on what I was trying for.

Headphones gave me a decent differentiation, but little electrostats on a shelf at the foot of the bed made things hard to hear cleanly.

The HEAT stuff seemed to be pushed to try and match the bottom of the analog summing, but The Neve was bigger and gushier.

I had hoped to find three discreet mixes, not edits of each mix ganged per verse.

Spent so much time trying to discern soundstage and timbre nuance between each track I drove myself nuts the first few times around