Octophonic installation?

[komakaze]

Hey guys,

I have two questions concerning an octophonic installation I will have to mix for. It's driving me nuts, I so hope that someone around here has the knowledge how to set things up for a project like this.

1. Does anyone know of a solution that let's me use the surround panners for a 8channel setup? There will be objects "flying" around over all walls of a room, and everything I found until now for mixing 8channel surround are workarounds... (as octogris for example doesn't work with PT).

2. (AND MOST IMPORTANT!) There is no possibility to mix on site - the final room will be 8m x 12m large, but I'll mix in a room that only has 4m x 7m. What is the best way to place the speakers during the mix and at the installation? Is there a possibility to place them in the corners of the room or is the way to go to align them in a circle?
Or the other way round: How can I assure, that the localisation of the sounds I'll do in the mix will fit the final installation? (I still have the possibility to say where the speakers should be placed...)


It would be so great if someone can help me out, as I'm totally lost right now.

THANKS!!!

[Wizzoboy]

Question 2 first. Your monitoring layout should mimic what will be on site. Your mix position should be where the audience will be. For instance, if they are in the middle of the room, that is where you should be when mixing.
Question 1 is not so easy. If only some elements of the programme are moving,
you could create a mix of those elements and import the tracks into PT. I see that Octogris is compatable with Reaper so you could go this route as long as you are on a Mac as Octogris is Mac only.
A problem you might have with Octogris is the fact that it is a spacialization plug in and not a discrete panner, so sound localisation may not be good.
If you are working in PTHD, and reduce your channel count to seven, you could use the Spanner pan plug in from Maggot software which can output up to 7.1.
I hope this is of some use.

[Wizzoboy]

Also, have a look at the Iosono "Anymix" plug in.

http://www.iosono-sound.com/

[The Cargo Cult]

what is the arrangement of the speaker array?
is it 8 evenly spaced speakers around 360 deg or is it quad on two height planes, or something else?

[komakaze]

Hey guys, thanks for answering so quickly - and sorry for my late response, I had other stuff going on (u know the drill)... sorry.

So, I'm still trying to figure out how to set up the installation correctly. It's not as easy as "mimic what will be on site", unfortunately... I think! Or is it? I did two (crappy) images which show the two possibilities I think are feasible.





What do you guys think? What is the better way to go?
As for your question about the speaker placement: I am still in the position to say where the speakers have to be installed, but they'll all be on one height level (under the ceiling, most likely).

Oh, and thanks for the info on octogris, I'm indeed looking for a panner with discrete channels.

Thanks so much! I really can't get my head around it...

[Frank Kruse]

I could be wrong but I think PT might not be the right toolkit to mix for such a setup. All the plugs I know of are pretty much tied to "cinematic" speaker-setups and you can not tweak the pan-laws in a way to make it work in non-standard setups.

Many years ago there was a programm called "Sigma" specialized for exactly your application but it's long gone (10 years maybe? Ran under PT5 or 4.3, can't remember. It connected to the PT hardware via the DAE engine similar to logic TDM back then). You could enter open configurations and speaker distances and it would calculate the pan law accordingly with distances in mid etc.

Not sure if something similar still exists.

We used it for trade-show installations and special events back then. Set up a PT-rig on site and had to tweak the virtual mix in the actual environment because there were last minute speaker setup changes etc.

Frank.

[Wizzoboy]

Your layout drawings are exactly what I meant when I said mimic the speaker layout. You don't have to have a mix space the same size as the venue.
As to layout, I think in this case you would probably be better off with the circular one around the audience.
To make sure that what you mix will translate to the larger space make sure that your speaker system and that of the venue are calibrated, so they will hear it as you heard it. This is how I work as most of the shows that I work on are presented in large venues.
I have recently done a mix in 5.1 for a show where the screen is 8 metres wide, with no translation problems.
You might find this link useful as the stickies at the head of the page contain speaker calibration and level information.

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/post-production-forum/

[Wizzoboy]

To give you an idea of what is possible, this is a shot of the largest venue I have mixed for with the show in progress. The audio is 10 channels in a rectangular layout with pans down the whole length of the auditorium.