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  #21  
Old 05-14-2001, 06:31 PM
haze haze is offline
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Default Re: A very important discussion re: iLok - please read

I agree with you Brian, the idea of paying for the same software twice is unbearable. I've spent 3 times what i did on the 001 for plug-ins and still adding to my collection.
I have McDsp, BF, Duy, waves, KOL...etc.

I see Erik's point of view, because the hard work these software developers put into their plug-ins only to have punks rip them off has got to be maddening. Unfortunatley, the paying customers get hosed as well!!

I'm sure something in the manner of what you propose will take place somewhere, otherwise people like BF are going to find themselves in court. On the outside, Erik seems like a hard-ass, but i'd like to think he'll do the right thing on a case by case basis. It's going to happen sooner or later, so i hope Pace comes up with some sort of backup system.

By the way, don't even think about arguing with Mike Connelly when it comes to Erik at Bomb Factory. He'll back him to the death. Must be on the payroll.

haze
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  #22  
Old 05-14-2001, 06:45 PM
davemc davemc is offline
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Default Re: A very important discussion re: iLok - please read

Hi Bryan,

Yes I agree with what you said about taking your ilok online every month/2 months. It would be a pain for me to take the ilok home to my PC which is on the net, this is where I will probably loose the bugger. although it is a cool idea. I will post this over at the other forum as well.


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www.indentmusic.com.au
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  #23  
Old 05-14-2001, 07:37 PM
Marc Edwards Marc Edwards is offline
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Default Re: A very important discussion re: iLok - please read

All of this argument seems useless, as we're still talking about software--it can ALWAYS be cracked... Another solution would be to use the serial number on the Mac as identification (this would have to be readable by the s/w). I don't know if this is possible... It could still be cracked though...
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  #24  
Old 05-14-2001, 08:01 PM
mpayne mpayne is offline
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Default Re: A very important discussion re: iLok - please read

Is it even possible to insure the information kept on an i-lok? I assume that the proponents of this (so called) solution can supply a short list of insurance companies ready to do business. i doubt it.
Seems to me BF want it both ways - every time you break the label on a piece of software, including their's, you are reminded that you are not buying the software, you are buying a license to use that software. But once you've bought it, they are then reserving the right to claim, in effect, that your purchase was, after all, that of a commodity that can only be replaced by a new purchase. Bomb Factory then join the IRS in the list of distinguished institutions that regard software in this light.
BF's reassurance that replacements will be dealt with on a case by case basis is not sufficient,when such a substantial investment is at stake. It should be policy that, for a small fee, a lost license should be replaceable. Pace are claiming that this technology will soon be in place. If at that point BF don't embrace it, any doubts about their attitude towards their paying customers should be laid to rest.
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  #25  
Old 05-15-2001, 12:05 AM
Joseph Grimm Joseph Grimm is offline
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Default Re: A very important discussion re: iLok - please read

Can someone fill me in here -- Just what *is* an iLoc?

Am I going to have to buy one? I don't want to.

Is the iLoc an optional thing? I HATE dongles. I need my PCI slots. Will other companies require them? mcDSP?

Why would it be better than challenge-response?

p.s. the guys at bombfactory seem like total jerks. And though their plugs are cool, they take so much dsp that they're damn near unusable. Not like mcDSP.
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  #26  
Old 05-15-2001, 12:57 AM
Bryan_Golder Bryan_Golder is offline
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Default Re: A very important discussion re: iLok - please read

Quote:
I know the subject of copy protection always elicits strong opinions. However, I would like to gently remind everyone that any post that even mentions the use of illegal software will almost always be deleted, so please tread carefully in this particular area.
I did not start this thread to suggest that people should use cracked software and thwart copy protection technology. That solution is shortsighted and combative. I want a long term solution - a technology that protects the people who pay for these products as well as the manufacturers of the products. If someone posts something that you think you need to delete, please, leave the rest of the thread intact.

Quote:
I said this on the other forum.
My ilok already broke, Bombfactory sent me a new one straight away. If someone steals it or if I am stupid enough to loose it. Well I will claim insurance, like I would do if my Rode Classic was lost/stolen. It amazes me that so many people have it in for Bombfactory.
I do not "have it in" for anybody. I am doing this because I think that Bombfactory's policy of selling a copy protection technology that cannot be backed up, or replaced, is unacceptable, and I want to discuss the issue up front, get people to talk about it, and get a solution that will work for everyone - the paying customers, and the software developers. I positively know that I am not asking for too much here.

If your Rode Classic gets stolen, how long will it take to file an insurance claim and replace it? A few days? A few weeks? Now pretend that you have fifty plugins on a little iLok dongle, and you have to file an insurance claim before you can use any of your software again. Why even consider having to go through that when we are talking about a copy protection technology that COULD make it easier for the paying customer. The authorizations on an iLok are not a large piece of musical equipment that need to be physically insured and replaced when lost - they are just bits. Pieces of information. They could be backed up and stored somewhere, and easily retrieved - if only the software manufacturers and PACE would make it work that way. I suggested a simple way to make iLok's theft and loss proof on the Musicplayer thread. Just an idea. Why not do something similar?

Someday some of us may have iLoks that have fifty or a hundred thousand dollars worth of software authorizations on it. Don't you we should have a policy that protects the paying customers, and a copy protection technology that protects that investment at the customers end as well as the manufacturers? NOW is the time to talk about this, before we are all burdened with yet another copy protection scheme that fails to fully and properly protect the interested parties.

Bryan Golder
bryan@goldermedia.com
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  #27  
Old 05-15-2001, 06:06 AM
tld tld is offline
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Default Re: A very important discussion re: iLok - please read

Check out:

http://www.ilok.com

It's a usb device that stores pace authorizations. iLok authorizations also support challenge/response. I certainly hope that plugin manufacturers choose to offer C/R as an option. I too have no usb and no pci slots to spare.

Tom


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[This message has been edited by tld (edited May 15, 2001).]
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  #28  
Old 05-15-2001, 06:22 AM
tld tld is offline
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Default Re: A very important discussion re: iLok - please read

Well...I was just looking at Bomb Factorys web site. I think this might be the answer:

3. Can I still authorize my Bomb Factory software if I don't have an iLok?

Bomb Factory software requires iLok on any USB-equipped computer. On non-USB computers, you can authorize using challenge/response. If you choose challenge/response, you will need to re-authorize your software every 120 days using a license file emailed to you automatically. (Alternately, you can use the web site as well.) Note that you will need to purchase an iLok if you move to a USB computer later. Obviously, we suggest that you add a USB card and use iLok instead.
-----

I wonder if all iLok challenge/response works like that...personally I think it sucks big time. With my slots full, my only choice other than the above pain in the a** is a G4 with an expansion chasis. Real f****** cute.

Tom
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  #29  
Old 05-15-2001, 11:05 AM
mike connelly mike connelly is offline
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Default Re: A very important discussion re: iLok - please read

"By the way, don't even think about arguing with Mike Connelly when it comes to Erik at Bomb Factory. He'll back him to the death. Must be on the payroll."

What exactly have I said about BF that constitutes "backing them to the death"? If you're going to make accusations, at least back them up with something. Otherwise, lay off the personal attacks.


Mike
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  #30  
Old 05-15-2001, 11:26 AM
bombfactory bombfactory is offline
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Default Re: A very important discussion re: iLok - please read

> Originally posted by tld:
> I wonder if all iLok challenge/response works like that...

iLok authorizations are permanent. You authorize an iLok (either by license card or challenge/response) and you're done.

As a courtesy, we are offering hard disk challenge/response authorizations to customers who don't have USB, and who don't have slots free in an expansion chassis.

For these non-USB users, we are offering a subscription/renewal model. This eliminates all "lost authorization" problems with hard drives and so forth, and gives the benefit of the doubt to the customer in all cases.

Basically you click one button on your screen, and you're authorized. There are no codes or anything else. You have to do this once every 120 days, but it only takes about ten seconds.

When you upgrade to an iLok (at any time), you get a permanent auth via the same system, and then you don't have to do this any more.

--Erik

[This message has been edited by bombfactory (edited May 15, 2001).]
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