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Old 02-13-2018, 02:03 PM
TNM TNM is offline
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Default anyone waiting for new mac pro?

Thought it might be interesting to chat about..most say it should be late this year and will be completely modular..

I was set on getting a trashcan 8 core, but once i realised high sierra is now stable with most my stuff (if i buy a trashcan i can downgrade all the way to yosemite if i really want to), i thought maybe i should wait.

BUT.... my biggest worry is that they will wait till their next major OS, meaning problems all over again (and not being able to use some old 32 bit apps i rely on, as high sierra is the very last OS to support them), and that they will literally use the mac pro as the launch platform for the new OS.

What do you think?

One thing that excites me is better than imac pro performance with better cooling, as the imac pro has massive cooling problems at load.. The trashcan mac pro's will stay in the 60's temp wise with all cores turboed and being thrashed.. the imac pro goes into the 90's very quickly like the macbook pros and then throttles.
I mean, the new mac pro will be crazy fast.. I can imagine a 10 or 16 core, 32 logical core, 64gb ram, multiple nvme ssd monster...
They'll go beyond 16 cores of course (i need to check the intel roadmap to get a proper idea), but i'd never need beyond that.

I know it will be Tbolt 3 so i'll need adapters for all the ports to use my current Tbolt stuff. I know they will be very expensive...

what do you think?

And the biggest question, cause i haven't paid attention to apple sales price strategies enough to form an opinion, do you guys and gals think that they will drop the price of remaining trashcans once the new one is released? If YES, then my biggest temptation is actually just to wait till the end of the year, use my trusty ageing imac till then, then grab an 8 core 1TB trashcan for a great price, buy 64gb ram from OWC, and i know it will still be plenty powerful for my needs. I mean ivy bridge was not much of an increase per core performance vs sandy bridge (my imac).. so it's not going to be like going into a current intel, but still 8 cores of 3ghz ivy bridge is still going to way outperform my 4 cores of 3.4ghz sandy bridge..and the mac pro's turbo is very stable unlike the imac, without overheating issues. So i'm guessing in a well multithreaded up i'll roughly double my plugin count, but have a dead quiet machine and 6 thunderbolt 2 ports which i really love the idea of.

But yeah, the current mac pros are really overpriced for 4 years and 2 months old tech. I find it hard to believe that apple say they were backed into a thermal corner with the 2013 design, and could not even put the haswell upgrades in there.. when the haswell/broadwell chips were more efficient (let alone skylake and beyond era). In other words i think apple are flat out lying, and could have at least updated to the 8 core 3.2ghz haswells and 10 core 3.1ghz haswells.. but.. they didn't. The performance gains of haswell and broadwell over ivy and sandy bridge were large.. more than 10% average at same clock speed.. but, for current mac pros, Ivy bridge it is. We have what we have.

If you reckon they'll go on sale when the new ones are due, i'll wait and see.. If not, i'll make my decision whether to go to windows or buy a trashcan mac pro once and for all by the end of Feb.

Anyone else got any thoughts, worries, desires for the 2018 mac pro?

Cheers
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Old 02-14-2018, 12:01 PM
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JCBigler JCBigler is offline
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Default Re: anyone waiting for new mac pro?

No one who knows anything about what Apple may be planning can say anything with any certainty about what they are going to release or when.

I would say that the promise of a "modular" computer from Apple is a pipe dream. That's not what they have been releasing for the last 10 years or so, and isn't the direction that they are moving. In fact they have been moving away from modular computer systems to the all-in-ones like the iMacs, Mac Minis, laptops and even the newMacPro is an all in one, non modular offering.

Modularity is what PCs are built around, being able to swap components and upgrade with industry standard configurations is what makes PCs much more flexible than Apple computers.

It would be a complete shift is corporate mindset for Apple to go back to producing a modular system.
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Old 02-14-2018, 01:54 PM
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mjslakeridge mjslakeridge is offline
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Default Re: anyone waiting for new mac pro?

I am not an Apple guy, so most of what I know is just from reading forums. I do agree with JC that Apple seems to lock you in to them being the supplier you have to turn to if something breaks. There is another thread in this forum about a video card in an iMac Pro going bad, and the only option is to get a replacement from an Apple authorized repair shop. And in that particular case, they (Apple) wouldn't even guarantee the replacement would be a new card, rather than a refurbished one.

Not to mention the price of all of Apple's products. I know some people swear by and love everything Apple, and that's fine, but I have always been a PC guy (I did have a Tandy computer back in the 1980's).
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Old 02-14-2018, 01:59 PM
BScout BScout is offline
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Default Re: anyone waiting for new mac pro?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JCBigler View Post
I would say that the promise of a "modular" computer from Apple is a pipe dream. That's not what they have been releasing for the last 10 years or so, and isn't the direction that they are moving. In fact they have been moving away from modular computer systems to the all-in-ones like the iMacs, Mac Minis, laptops and even the newMacPro is an all in one, non modular offering.

Modularity is what PCs are built around, being able to swap components and upgrade with industry standard configurations is what makes PCs much more flexible than Apple computers.

It would be a complete shift is corporate mindset for Apple to go back to producing a modular system.
It's literally what Apple has promised straight from Tim Cook
https://www.cultofmac.com/474799/app...ing-next-year/

Not much of a "pipe dream"

As for delivery, rumour is late 2018/early 2019. But they've had production issues before.
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Old 02-14-2018, 03:33 PM
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JCBigler JCBigler is offline
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Default Re: anyone waiting for new mac pro?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BScout View Post
It's literally what Apple has promised straight from Tim Cook
https://www.cultofmac.com/474799/app...ing-next-year/
Lol
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  #6  
Old 02-14-2018, 06:17 PM
TNM TNM is offline
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Default Re: anyone waiting for new mac pro?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BScout View Post
It's literally what Apple has promised straight from Tim Cook
https://www.cultofmac.com/474799/app...ing-next-year/

Not much of a "pipe dream"

As for delivery, rumour is late 2018/early 2019. But they've had production issues before.
exactly.. I only said it cause it was directly from Apple. They made it clear they are totally redesigning the machine to what he users have asked for for years.

I actually bet you they will allow changing of ram/drives/graphics.

The imac pro is a mistake, do not get one. They won't last. Desktop processors at those temps are not going to last long.

Any good audio PC i have seen will never hit those temps, even those using basic quiet air cooling with all power reducing states disabled.

I have a feeling the price will be HUGE.. probably the same as the imac pro but we'll have to add a screen on top. Maybe even more expensive.

I only have 5 grand saved so far and I need 7 to get the current trashcan 8 core with the 64gb ram from OWC and to use my 27" non retina imac as the screen..

A month or so and i'll decide for sure I guess.
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Old 02-14-2018, 07:49 PM
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Default Re: anyone waiting for new mac pro?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TNM View Post
I only have 5 grand saved so far and I need 7 to get the current trashcan 8 core with the 64gb ram from OWC...
That is exactly the spec for the MacPro in my signature that I bought a year ago for our theatre. We only paid $6500. Of course we don't have to pay sales tax either.

With the Sonnet rack mount chassis and 2TB of SSDs, it's a pretty good system. I expect it to last at least another 6 years. But, the only reason that I bought the Mac was because I also need to run QLab, which is Mac only. Otherwise it would have been a PC.
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  #8  
Old 02-14-2018, 09:09 PM
TNM TNM is offline
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Default Re: anyone waiting for new mac pro?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JCBigler View Post
That is exactly the spec for the MacPro in my signature that I bought a year ago for our theatre. We only paid $6500. Of course we don't have to pay sales tax either.

With the Sonnet rack mount chassis and 2TB of SSDs, it's a pretty good system. I expect it to last at least another 6 years. But, the only reason that I bought the Mac was because I also need to run QLab, which is Mac only. Otherwise it would have been a PC.
Hi there, thanks for the post. Hope this finds you well.

I have seen a fanless 4 drive dock which is the one i would get i think, thunderbolt 2 compatible and with a through port as well.. i can't *stand* fan noise. This one is a multidock 4 slot that just goes into a normal 1U rack bay. I'd put SSD's in there and i believe it has it's own hardware raid controller as well (need to double check that).

If you bought it a year ago you would have gotten the dual D700 Amd's. I have been thinking of tinkering a little with video editing, i'll start with media composer first and see how I go. I have never edited even one video in my life, ever.. but i'd like to start tinkering with adding self made videos to my music for youtube. Do you do anything like that with the 8 core and the AMD's, and is the processing time reasonable?

As far as PC.. I really detest windows 10 unfortunately. I was looking into a 10 core 7900X, with 64GB ram, 2 M2 ssd, 1 sata SSD and 1 7200 spinner, 2 samsung 27" monitors.. the entire thing comes to 6800 AUD ready to go (remember, things are always more expensive here). It also comes with a proper system warranty rather than just individual parts and is by the best DAW builder in my state. I could have built it myself but i'd have saved a few hundred dollars, no system warranty and have to do the labour.. so why bother.. But yeah, that windows 10.. I am just not sure what to do..

All i know is that it's time for a new machine. One thing I love about pro tools the freeze and commit is second to none and that's how i have been getting around it for now.

Part of me was so over it, I even almost put the 10 core 64gb, with 2TB SSD imac pro on finance (11K here), just to get a screaming fast up to date computer. But then those temp tests really worried me.. ALOT. I am literally seeing it on every imac benchmark video i can find.. they will turbo to like 4ghz or whatever it is, then get the cpu to 95 degrees, then throttle back down to 3ghz but the temps still stay high..
this makes it really bad for pro audio IMO.. because that means a project that is working, may not work next play through as the cpu has overheated.

with windows i will have all the cpus at a pre determined speed locked in at all times, no throttling OR turbo (with the 7900X 3.3ghz 10 core, i would set it to 4ghz permanently with turbo disabled.. it's turbo max is 4.3 but i just want the one stable clock speed).
In this situation, performance is 100% repeatable at all times. A 40ghz monster. All power saving states disabled. I bet i could run at 32 buffer in PT period. (actually i think with asio it only goes to 64, so i will run at 64). I believe the trashcan is the same, even though it turbos, because of the good cooling,, it stays at max turbo all the time in moderate DAW projects and above.

The imac pro would still thrash it but i am too scared, even with applecare, that after the 3 years are up i might get a brick that is impossible to even attempt to repair myself. Heat kills. It's the enemy of all electronics.

Anyway, sorry for the ramble.. just that this new computer situation has been on my mind for 3 months now and i still can't decide.. i keep changing my mind daily.. cause i am in a financial noose in that once i commit, i have to stick with it for 5 years minimum.. so i just can't afford to get it wrong.

With your sonnet, how noisy is it?
What buffer do you run in PT in the 8 core trashcan?
I realise you have HDX, (in the sonnet?) but I mean, for your Vi;s, what buffer do you have chosen..64? 128?

Cheers, thanks again.
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  #9  
Old 02-15-2018, 12:19 AM
TNM TNM is offline
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Default Re: anyone waiting for new mac pro?

So I just couldn't work today, i couldn't get into the mindset, and have been checking out computers all day.

As i thought, the kaby lake mobile is no real improvement on my crystal well mobile when i compared 2.8ghz geekbench to 2.8ghz geekbench. Only the 2.9 and 3.1 beat it a little. Crystal well is just haswell with iris pro graphics.
The nice 10% jump was from sandy bridge to haswell.

Anyway, my imac 3.4ghz i7 scores 3500 single core vs 3600 single core score for the 8 core trashcan. Not much difference. But multi is like 11K vs 24K.. huge difference.. so obviously, i am going to be able to run WAY more plugins in pro tools with the 8 core trashcan, but my single core performance for Vi's won't be improved. Ultimately, i'll still have to use stereo instances of kontakt spread over many tracks, for PT to spread the load properly.

But i think, with 6 apollo dsp and 20 satellite DSP for UAD effects, and the coming impact soundgrid i have ordered (700$ with diamond bundle included, hope i can resell that as i already have horizon, and it's fanless, just to offload waves plugins to dsp), i should be golden overall, and just use the 8 cores for Vi's basically.
But still, it bothers me that it's a damn ivy bridge.. i mean the mac pro is SOOO dated.. if it was at least haswell i would have jumped on it today..
If it was 2k cheaper i would jump on it today.

I have checked the apple store weekly for refurbs of mac pro's, and there just aren't any in Australia.. I have been checking this since 2011 and never been able to find one of any mac pro. I'd be happy to save the money believe me. My macbook pro is a refurb and works perfectly and it was 3799 fully maxed out for that model, zero options available, vs 4499 new.. big saving. In fact, in a way I almost prefer them to brand new as they go through a re testing process.

I think my idea of HDN at some point on the 8 core, will be asking too much of it at 64 samples. I'd have to go to 128 and it's just too high for guitars and vocals. I'd rather stick with apollo console. The only real answer is HDX if i ever leave apollo.

As far as the latest coffee lake processors like 8700K, the single core score for a non overclocked one is around 5K.. but funnily enough, the multithread score is similar to the 8 core mac pro.. so the only difference in real world usage, would be more VI polyphony per actual core.

Overclocked they go to 6K geekbench single core score and higher, so even almost double the single core performance of the mac pro trashcan 8 core... However, we are talking about 4.7ghz steady vs 3ghz of the 8 core.. so clock for clock, the difference in 5 years later architecture, isn't as huge as one might think.

My final question is if anyone here has the *12* core trashcan and what they think of it.. How it reacts at low latency and how single core performance is.

the 8 core has the most L3 per core of all of them.. 25mb divided by 8 cores, vs 12 divided by 2 in the 6 core, and 30 divided by 12 in the 12 core.

Now to the imac pro..
the 10 core gets 5300 ish per core.. so *that's* where i'd see a real VI improvement over my imac, BUT.. the multicore is even better, at 35K vs 24 for the 8 core mac pro (that's the best i saw, the 8 core scores were from 22 to 24k).

I mean now THAT'S a huge difference.. Price wise it's exactly 3 thousand dollars more, or 4 if i add the 16gb radeon. But it is also 2TB ssd vs 1Tb in mac pro.

So much to think about

Anyone with real world Pro tools experience on an imac pro? would LOVE to hear from you about performance, noise, and heat.

Cheers
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  #10  
Old 02-15-2018, 04:59 AM
musicman691 musicman691 is offline
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Default Re: anyone waiting for new mac pro?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mjslakeridge View Post
I am not an Apple guy, so most of what I know is just from reading forums. I do agree with JC that Apple seems to lock you in to them being the supplier you have to turn to if something breaks. There is another thread in this forum about a video card in an iMac Pro going bad, and the only option is to get a replacement from an Apple authorized repair shop. And in that particular case, they (Apple) wouldn't even guarantee the replacement would be a new card, rather than a refurbished one.

Not to mention the price of all of Apple's products. I know some people swear by and love everything Apple, and that's fine, but I have always been a PC guy (I did have a Tandy computer back in the 1980's).
I think you're referring to my travails with my iMac's video card. That was a journey I wouldn't wish on anyone. If I didn't mention it I found out what is meant by refurbished with the iMac video cards - they replace the video chip. What they don't say is if they use chips from the same vintage as what had the original problems or new production.

Never had a Tandy machine but I still have my old original Commodore 64 computer in an upstairs bedroom. The Sid sound chip was ahead of it's time.
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