Theatrical Mix, Dialog in LUFS ? A Plea to the Pros

[joachim]

Is there a rerecording mixer who :
- made a pleasant mix in a big dub stage (or has access to the master)
- found the mix pleasant in a cinema
- checked there the Dolby Fader Pot Position 7
AND who could be so so nice to measure in that mix some parts of average dialog only and tell the LUFS or LKFS ?

This could be very helpful for us "bedroom mixers" when mixing for a festival or for making a pre-mix. Just to be in the ballpark, +/- 2 LU.

Yes, yes : there are no standards, mix by the ear, only in a big dub stage, it all depends, calibration to 79dB spl, has been discussed before, you might check this sticky/turorial, we do not look at meters,... .Not interested in those repetitions, I read that before and take it for granted.
I only care for cinema, not DVD, Broadcast, ... and only for real numbers, not suggestions, not LeqA/RMS/Peaks, only LUFS/LKFS.

Just an approximate number, or a range, something like -39 to -35 LUFS.

Please !

[MIKEROPHONICS]

What's the point? The cinema screws your level anyway as the cinema mixers have been naughty little boys edging the mixes louder and louder....
The whole Dolby model is so flawed now - and until they change their policy and remove the fader from playback, and the cinema mixers cooperate - or the problem becomes involuntarily solved by legislation.
Go measure some DVDs - that will get you in the ballpark enough.

[Brandonx1]

Originally Posted by MIKEROPHONICS

What's the point? The cinema screws your level anyway as the cinema mixers have been naughty little boys edging the mixes louder and louder....
The whole Dolby model is so flawed now - and until they change their policy and remove the fader from playback, and the cinema mixers cooperate - or the problem becomes involuntarily solved by legislation.
Go measure some DVDs - that will get you in the ballpark enough.

I think the OP is just asking for a starting point. I think it would be an interesting test. I thought the LKFS should be -31 or is it -27?

[Brent_Sydney]

27 for dx these days is fairly normal down here. Probably hotter in the US of A I'm guessing. There are threads on this on gearslutz, google up.

[joachim]

"starting point" :
Yes, and reassurance/correction.

"I thought the LKFS should be -31 or is it -27?" :
From what I read here, there is no "should" for cinema and there shouldn`t be any
"should". I am not interested in dialnorm (DVD) or broadcast.

"Go measure some DVDs" :
No, according to Scott Weber , Webinar Creating an Indie Soundtrack, a theatrical mix is far more dynamic.

"google up" :
Nothing for cinema (goggleing for 3 years by now).

I am concerned about theatrical mixes. I took for granted, what some Pros said :"Peaks around -20dBfs" as a starting point.
Replicating that, in my 3-feet-away-from-the-monitors-situation, and measuring the LUFS, the number was -37 LUFS.
So I am asking a nice person and rerecording mixer of a pleasant mix, that was played with Dolby Fader Pot 7, if he/she could do me the very big favour of measuring that average dialog`s LUFS; so I could compare/adjust.
That may be a reluctant thing to do for a Pro due to "mixing by the ears" and time-consuming to go back into an older project, but having this number or range of LUFS in typical dialog, I would be able to maybe develop the same independant-of-metering-capability.
My calibration maybe wrong due to only using a SPL meter : by having the guidance of a LUFS-value of a pleasant mix, I would be able to first : mix to that LUFS and second : calibrate my monitors to a level that pleases me.
My own "figure" of -37LUFS is derived from the "facts" :
a) dialnorm for DVD now measured in LUFS, with -31 being pretty dynamic
b) a theatrical mix is much more dynamic , "much more" would be 6dB for me.
Needless to say, I am totally NOT in a position to suggest any new standards and never will be and never intend to; and it is not my point. My point is : the same guidance as "try starting with peaks around -20dBfs", but just in LUFS !
I am yet in a very-low-budget-buisiness-situation : still, if my mix is played in a cinema (not for a paying audience, just for the students, their families and the tutors of a filmschool) or during a festival, where my mix is played together with films, that had more budget and were mixed at a real dubstage, i would enjoy the feeling "my mix is not toooooo far of from the real thing".
That`s all.

[mr.armadillo]

http://i49.tinypic.com/10ql2cx.jpg

[joachim]

Originally Posted by mr.armadillo

http://i49.tinypic.com/10ql2cx.jpg

Thank you. Is that measurement from a theatrical mix ? (Because it looks like the TV standard, I mean because of -23.8 LUFS, on the left graph the "majority" is centered around -36 )

[mr.armadillo]

Originally Posted by joachim

Thank you. Is that measurement from a theatrical mix ? (Because it looks like the TV standard)

You did ask for a measurement of a DX stem of a theatrical mix, did you not? There's a lot of screaming and yelling going on. TV is -23 btw.

[joachim]

Originally Posted by mr.armadillo

You did ask for a measurement of a DX stem of a theatrical mix, did you not? There's a lot of screaming and yelling going on. TV is -23 btw.

Thank you for taking your time to help me !
I assume then from your graph that the "majority" around -36 are the average dialog parts (no yelling, no whispering") - that assures/corrects my -37 assumption.
Thanks again !

[mr.armadillo]

Originally Posted by joachim

I assume then from your graph that the "majority" around -36 are the average dialog parts (no yelling, no whispering")

Correct.