A little help, please: What hardware gear for PT + LOGIC + KONTAKT?

[r1m2b3]

Hello everyone

I'm not sure that my post belongs on this particular forum or even on this site. Sorry if such is the case.

I have been using a mac G3 and a digi 001 card with PT5LE for the past 15 years. And, well, wish now to upgrade...
I plan to buy both PT (for audio tasks) and Logic (midi tasks) and use some syncing protocole as described here or there on the web. I would like both to work with kontakt (I know about the tricky thing regarding PT's AAX plugs with kontakt but hope to get around it...). I plan to make videos too (Finalcut pro or anything). Of course, this purchase is supposed to make for years and years of work.
My first question: what mac computer should I buy (and with what OS (capitan, maverick) ?) a) an imac beefed up at 32 go b) a Macpro c)a Macbook pro, since it might seem the best deal in terms of power to price ratio. d) wait until Apple's next roll-outs (but I'm afraid of wasting months for not much)?
I've read that an imac could get stalled with ten virtual instruments and a couple of plugs, where a Macpro would not. But I know too that the Mac pro is now an oldish thing bound to be scrapped from Apple'roster.
Second point: I've read Avid's advice regarding the audio interface. And though: should I buy for instance an apollo (€ 2k) or some €300 gear + a good preamp?
No clue either as to whether a single interface can make it for two DAWs. Please, can you tell me since I'm really no king with computers...
As you may feel, i'm just asking what hardware I should exactly buy (within the limit of, say, 5-6000 euros (=dollars) to get some good Pt-Logic-kontakt setup.
Thank you for any answer, comprehensive or not, and sorry again if this post doesn't belong here.

[MeehaRomanov]

I think You need a MacBook pro or macpro + UAD + any controller\sound card, like a digi003 factory and PT12


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[musicman691]

Any new Mac you buy from Apple is going to have Sierra on it. You may be able to find a good used one second hand.

I run a 27 inch iMac with 32 gig ram and 3.4 GHz cpu. 2 TB 7200 rpm internal drive and several external drives for samples and PT to record to. If you go to a spinner drive you need a minimum of 7200 rpm non-energy saving drive or an ssd. What you heard about iMacs stalling with that small amount of vi's is nonsense. I've run sessions with 20+ instances of Kontakt 5 and or EW Play engine libraries with a small handful of plugins no problem. A lot of how things run depends on exactly what vi's you're running. Samplers tend to have relatively low cpu usage versus what I call computational vi's like Reaktor or any of the Arturia stuff for example. Arturia's MiniMoog emulation is a cpu pig for example.

I don't know what you're talking about when you say 'I know about the tricky thing regarding PT's AAX plugins and Kontakt' Please enlighten me as to what that means. Yes current versions of PT use aax64 plugins and current NI plugins support that format.

A good single interface will work for both daws. You need to define exactly what if anything you're going to record into the computer other than MIDI. UAD Apollo is a great interface but ask yourself if you need what it does, particularly with regards to the dsp processing it has. If you're budget conscious there's the MOTU 828x.

Monitor speakers - JBL LSR305 or 308 are a good bet and won't break the bank

Lastly but not least - budget. There's:
computer
ram (don't buy Apple ram but install your own; it doesn't void AppleCare and is easy on all except for MacBook Pros where the ram is soldered in)
several external drives - one for PT to record to, another for samples and at least one to clone your system to as a safety backup
audio interface
monitor speakers - don't work only on headphones
headphones
cabling for this whole deal
acoustic room treatment

[albee1952]

Last advice; open every old session you want to save, consolidate all the audio and export the audio in wave format. A new system may not open SD II files

Kontact works dandy in PT 11/12

[VRW]

Originally Posted by r1m2b3

what mac computer should I buy (and with what OS (capitan, maverick) ?) a) an imac beefed up at 32 go b) a Macpro c)a Macbook pro, since it might seem the best deal in terms of power to price ratio. d) wait until Apple's next roll-outs (but I'm afraid of wasting months for not much)?.

If you are going to use a lot of Virtual Instruments with large sample libraries you might go with an 27" 4.0GHz i7 Quad Core iMac with 32-64GB, the 1TB Apple Flash drive and the
more powerful graphic engine.
http://www.apple.com/fr/shop/buy-mac...A&step=config#
(you will have to select the extra stuff manually...4.0GHz i7 Quad processor, 1TB Flash drive, more powerful graphic engine)

This is the top model of the current iMac range but it will make sense for you as Pro Tools 12 wants an i7 Quad Core processor to run as it is supposed to, you can use a lot of VIs
as well as disk cache with 32+GB memory and you can skip one of your needed separate drives having the 1TB Flash drive for sure.

As you might know Pro Tools wants a separate drive for it´s audio and another separate drive for all the sample libraries if the user has got lots of VIs in his sessions.
With the 1TB Flash drive you can either keep all your sample libraries on your OS system drive and just use a smaller external USB3 SSD for your Pro Tools sessions+audio files or
vice versa for example.

Important...you can save money on buying 3rd party memory instead of ordering it from Apple.
https://www.amazon.fr/Crucial-PC3-14...+CT2K8G3S186DM
It´s super easy to install the Ram yourself.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7lbkFBxJ-Y

If however you want to move around with your music production unit from time to time and you rather will use VIs on an average level only you might go for one of the new 15"
Macbook Pro models with an 512GB Apple Flash drive at least. As you wrote that you intend to work with video as well you better get the more expensive model because it´s the
video card/graphic engine they primarily differ in and the more expensive one got a more powerful graphic engine finally.
http://www.apple.com/fr/shop/buy-mac...A&step=config#
(you will have to select the extra stuff manually again...the stronger processor and the more powerful graphic engine)

You know, the 15" models all come with the for PT12 required i7 Quad Core processors, 16GB Ram. With an 512+GB Flash drive at least you can skip one of the required separate,
external drives for your work with Pro Tools again.
However unlike with the current iMac models the new Macbook Pro models don´t come with classical USB3 ports but only with Thunderbolt 3/USB-C ports. So you would have to use
adapters to connect classical USB 3 gear (like external drives for Pro Tools audio or for sample libraries for example) to these Macbooks.

I would not wait until Apple´s new roll out particularly if you want to go with an iMac just because it will get more and more complicated with all the connections and ports with future
models in reference to all the stuff you need for music recording. The current iMac models still offer easy accessable and well working ports for all needs in an average Pro Tools recording set up.

On the other hand I personally rather would not recommend to go with even older models of iMacs or Macbooks just because as you wrote you want this purchase to work for many years finally.
Even if some of the users prefer older versions of macOS for their work with PT12 you still can use macOS Sierra as well. I use it myself without any problems on a daily basis.

Btw I´m using both Pro Tools 12.7.1 and Logic Pro 10.3.1 with the latest version of mac OS Sierra successfully, side by side on an i7 Quad Core Macbook Pro. Works great.

Originally Posted by r1m2b3

Second point: I've read Avid's advice regarding the audio interface. And though: should I buy for instance an apollo (€ 2k) or some €300 gear + a good preamp?

The audio interface again depends on your specific needs particularly as for the amount of Inputs/Mic pres and Outputs you intend to use in the future.

If you will not need more than 2 Inputs/Mic pres simultaneously most of the time you may consider an Universal Audio Apollo Twin Thunderbolt for example.
https://www.thomann.de/fr/universal_...n_mkii_duo.htm
https://www.thomann.de/fr/universal_..._mkii_quad.htm

The Apollo interfaces are the most reliable and most stable interfaces with Pro Tools at the moment and their sound quality is legend already. I use one myself and it works perfectly with both
Pro Tools and Logic as well as with all other audio applications you will use on your system. It integrates flawlessy in the whole system and the quality of the converters and mic pres is outstanding.
If you use some of the Unison preamps for recording you can get some serious results even without using any additional hardware.

Nevertheless even the small Apollo Twin additionally offers 8 Adat Inputs which means you could add a nice external high end hardware micpre unit at any time later and connect it via ADAT to
the Apollo interface.

I have had an 003R back in the day, with the release of Pro Tools 11 I replaced it with an Apogee Quartet and I ended up with an UA Apollo interface. I have never been happier and never have
looked back. Additionally I have worked with a lot of other audio interfaces from several manufacturers incl. Digidesign/Avid but none of them has been as stable with Pro Tools and Logic as the Apollo
(well, yes, the old highend Avid/Digidesign -HD- interfaces were great as well ).

Again it depends on your needs for Inputs and Outputs which model of Apollo might be interesting for you. The converters as well as the mic pres are the same in the Twin series as well as in the
more expensive models.

I personally use to use Pro Tools and Logic separately only which means I import my stuff from one DAW into the other if needed. I use to do a lot of Midi stuff in Logic for example and I either
bounce the Midifiles to Audio before changing to Pro Tools or I save the Midifiles, import it into Pro Tools and open it with the same/another VI there again.
If you are using Kontakt in both programs this should be no problem at all.
Even if you can use them both at a time via Pro Tools aggregate etc. I myself rather prefer to work with the most stable and reliable solution available.
Anyway check this out as there you can see how to get it to work simultaneously (without Rewire which does not work in this particular case, both DAWs would need to be master).
http://www.protoolstraining.com/pro-...ith-logic.html

Fact is from my personal experience with other combinations of audio engines the Apollo interfaces do handle Pro Tools aggregate solutions perfectly fine as well.

If you would need more Inputs and Outputs simultaneously you could check out the more expensive Apollo interfaces.
https://www.thomann.de/fr/universal_...llo_8_quad.htm
https://www.thomann.de/fr/universal_audio_apollo_8p.htm
https://www.thomann.de/fr/universal_audio_apollo_16.htm

Just check out all the specs on the manufacturers website.
http://www.uaudio.com

Finally let me say that it´s not the nice, high quality plug ins from UAD which I am impressed by most as for the UA Apollo interfaces (even if those are a nice addition if one can afford it).
For me actually it´s the great reliablity and stability of the Apollo unit and it´s drivers in conjunction with Pro Tools 12 which makes me recommend the Apollos to everyone at the moment.
I personally have never experienced a more trouble free performance with several different audio applications, especially with Pro Tools, with any other audio interface I have used so far.
And there have been many. So that´s really cool imo and for me personally that´s the point at the end of the day.


...I forgot, for your separate, external drives (PT audio or samples) you may use either a USB3 or a Thunderbolt SSD drive.


Cheers.

[r1m2b3]

Hello again

First of all, thanks to all those who answered (and some of them did so in details, as VRW who wrote an incredibly comprehensive reply, thank you so much!). Some email alerts happened not to have worked properly + I neglected to answer the little that worked + I was busy with my purchase and some work:
In the end, I've bought the hexacore 16gb mac pro since its price was 4000, against 4700 for a sauced up imac (though I might have gone for an imac, had I been warned of musicman's and VRW's replies). I've added a €350 4K screen that I've not received yet. I had no time to unpack the mac pro eiher since I have some back work to do with my old setup. Anyway, maybe I've done the wrong choice altogether.
There remain a few questions now:
1) Should I get some ram memory up to 32Gb, or 64 GB? (reminder: PT, Logic, and some video too, but independently, i.e only with the audio mixes)
2) I plan to use the 256Gb ssd for installing the softwares: PT, Logic, Final cut pro (or some other video thing). Is any upgrade to 512 or 1 Tb needed?
3) If I understand correctly, I may need three external ssd's : 1)audio in thunderbolt 2)sample library in thunderbolt 3)backup system. What about the video rushes, and copies for video montage and editing? Where should all of these be placed?
4)Audio interface: some of you ask what kind of music I'll be recording: I'll have to record jazz/soul/r'nb vocals that usually stand out of the mix in some old "Tony Braxton or Brian Mc Knight way". Probably no rock/pop of any sorts. + I'm a bit confused as to the number of I/O on a apollo twin mk2. I've been used to having multiple ins on my old digidesign001. I understand that most sound banks are now virtual and embarked on the computer, but what if I miss some of both my old S5000 akai or roland juno stage? I have two pairs of speakers too that I'd like to switch from and to. That's why I recently looked toward a focusrite clarett 4 or 8, but I know that some imac users have pops and clicks with it (what about mac pros though?). Of course, VRW's strong advice for apollo could make me reconsider. But an apollo 8 quad is €2700, which makes a huge price gap, and it does not have a midi I/O. Can an apollo mk2 be extended to more I/Os without comprimising on sound quality?
So, maybe these points I'd failed to make initially will give some of you some fine tuned idea of my needs. Thank you again if you can help me.

[VRW]

Originally Posted by r1m2b3

1) Should I get some ram memory up to 32Gb, or 64 GB? (reminder: PT, Logic, and some video too, but independently, i.e only with the audio mixes)

Imo, yes, get more than 16GB memory particularly if you are going to work with video additionally. 32GB should be enough though if you have to look
after your money now.

Originally Posted by r1m2b3

2) I plan to use the 256Gb ssd for installing the softwares: PT, Logic, Final cut pro (or some other video thing). Is any upgrade to 512 or 1 Tb needed?

Depends on your budget.
For your software/applications even 256GB will be enough if you have all samples, loops, audio whatever on external drives.
However if you can afford it and you want a more "clean" solution you can get the 1TB Flash drive and try to run everything from this one internal SSD only.
Those Apple Flash drives are the only drives which you can do that with seriously using Pro Tools.
You then only need an external USB 3 drive (don´t have to be Thunderbolt which is more expensive) for your back ups.

If however money is an issue now you might get 3 external USB 3 enclosures
https://www.amazon.fr/dp/B00OJ3UJ2S/...rnal+enclosure

and put one of these into each enclosure (get the amount of storage space according to your future needs but aviod anything less than 500GB).
https://www.amazon.fr/Samsung-MZ-75E...ds=Samsung+850

There are also enclosures available which can house two drives (or more) but they most of the time come with a cooling system/fan which often is annoyingly
loud. I don´t know this particular one though. Maybe it´s ok?
https://www.amazon.fr/StarTech-com-B...rive+Enclosure

To be honest I think I would not go for such a one (even if many pros do have those) because it´s expensive, large and assumingly loud by it´s fan.

The enclosure I posted you the link from above is super light, really affordable, made particularly for the use with SSDs and completely noiseless. I have been
using those for the last years successfully with Pro Tools and it does work perfectly fine.

Originally Posted by r1m2b3

3) If I understand correctly, I may need three external ssd's : 1)audio in thunderbolt 2)sample library in thunderbolt 3)backup system. What about the video rushes, and copies for video montage and editing? Where should all of these be placed?

Basically this is the requirement for serious work with Pro Tools however since those Apple Flash drives have become that crazily fast (600-800mb/s) you even
can run everything off a large Apple Flash drive only as well if you want/need to do it.

Except you use really many VIs with many very large sample libraries. Then you better use an external drive for those libraries even with an Apple Flash drive.
What´s important to know about SSD/Flash drives you must not fill them up more than 85% of their available storage space over a longer period of time.
If you do that the SSD/Flash drive will get slow by the time and die earlier. That´s really important to consider with SSDs/Flash drives.

As for your video stuff it´s the same with the audio. If you can afford it and you upgrade to the 1TB Apple Flash drive you can leave it on your internal Flash drive.
Only if the data should get to much by the time then you may put it on another external USB 3 SSD.

Originally Posted by r1m2b3

4)Audio interface: some of you ask what kind of music I'll be recording: I'll have to record jazz/soul/r'nb vocals that usually stand out of the mix in some old "Tony Braxton or Brian Mc Knight way". Probably no rock/pop of any sorts. + I'm a bit confused as to the number of I/O on a apollo twin mk2.

Well, actually the I/Os of the Apollo Twin are quite clear.
It´s got 2 mic pres (like the 001) or 2 line inputs , 1 Guitar Z input, 4 line /TRS outputs (you can use them to connect 2 different pairs of monitors to the Twin)
1 headphone output and 8 digital ADAT inputs.

So finally you got 10 separate inputs and 4 separate outputs+1 headphone out.

According to your last posting I would suggest and recommend you following solution:
1) Universal Apollo Twin Mk2 Duo - for your audio interface because they got the best drivers and an exceptional audio quality as for converters and mic pres.
These Apollo units simply use to work great with Pro Tools as for stability, reliability and sound quality.
https://www.thomann.de/fr/universal_...Audio_405479_1
2) Focusrite Clarett Octopre - which you will connect via ADAT to the Apollo Twin and which will provide you 8 inputs (mic pres and line+inserts) additionally.
You even got 8 analog line outputs on the Focusrite theoretically but you will control it´s outputs via ADAT and the Apollo in this particular case.
https://www.amazon.fr/Focusrite-AMS-...larett+Octopre

https://global.focusrite.com/mic-pres/clarett-octopre

Both units are brand new and of latest technology, offer very high audio quality as for converters and mic pres (the Focusrite mic pres come with the cool AIR
function and are current ones too) and it will be about €1650.- altogether. A lot less than the Apollo Quad.

The Focusrite Clarett Octopre is one of Focusrite´s latest releases and the successor of the famous Focusrite Octopre MK2 8 channel mic pre unit. The Clarett
Octopre is no audio interface like all the other Clarett devices but an 8 channel mic pre unit only.

I personally think this set up could meet your requirements perfectly while being still affordable in a way. If you should need more DSP power for those
Universal Audio plug ins later I would recommend to get a DSP Thunderbolt Satellite with for example 8 DSP Cores in the future.
https://www.thomann.de/fr/universal_...udio_349343_16
2 DSP Cores from the Apollo Twin Duo however will certainly be enough to start out and to get into the world of UA.

Like mentioned in my previous posting it´s the great reliability, stability and the really high class audio quality which makes those Apollos desirable these days.
Even if I was very into the Clarett series when they were released and I still think these are ones of the very best interfaces in their price range it turned out by
the time that Focusrite did not a perfect job with drivers, software and other little things.
I think if being limited by a budget an Universal Audio audio interface with a brand new Focusrite mic pre extension unit via ADAT will be kinda best of both worlds.

Well, and no worries about the sound quality by using the ADAT extension for the inputs. That has been an approved way to work in countless high class studios by
audio professionals all around the world for decades.

The best of success to you.

[musicman691]

Originally Posted by r1m2b3

Hello again

First of all, thanks to all those who answered (and some of them did so in details, as VRW who wrote an incredibly comprehensive reply, thank you so much!). Some email alerts happened not to have worked properly + I neglected to answer the little that worked

You're not the only one. There was a period about a week or so back that I wasn't getting email notifications of thread responses either. It happens from time to time and it's a real bother.

[r1m2b3]

Thank you again for these answers.
OK, so, Regarding the audio interface, I'm about sold on the apollo twin, though probably the quad one. I will probably try to do without any I/O extension as yet. A little question:
1)Would a twin duo (€900) + a satellite (=€1570 altogether for 6 cores) be a better deal than the twin quad (€1300) or does the duo represent some intrinsic loss of two cores I may regret later on in case of cascading? (remember: I'm buying this new equipment for the long run and worry a bit about what some call "the ageing dsp's of apollo")
2)Why do you call the 1TB internal flash drive solution the cleaner one? Will i have to partition it? I would have thought that going for as many separate external drives as I have tasks to do (samples + video rushes ssd/audio + video-copies-for-editing ssd/rendering and backup ssd) would be a cleaner setup, i.e not mingling with the OS and software internal drive (?)
3) I've read that third party memory RAM sticks should not be added to the built-in memory of Apple. So, can I buy 16GB only and add them to my preexisting 16 gb or buy 32 and scrap the "old" 16gb ?
4) there does not seem to be a website devoted to final cut pro X like Avid's on PT. I've read that videos should be rendered on an independent drive. Is this true (then I should have 4 external drives...)
5)Would you confirm that audio editing in Logic is way less handy as in PT
6)Regarding Logic again, I've bumped into this:"Word of advice, if you are using Logic on one computer only, DO NOT COPY anything (samples, ultrabeat samples,etc.) into your project. This doubles up on space and just wastes your storage capacity." What the heck is this guy about if samples happen to sit on their own drive... Don't understand...

So, those questions may be minor, but if you've got a couple more minutes to waste, well, think about me. Thank you anyway.

[edwinstar]

1.) Are you planning to use and buy lots of UAudio Plugins? If yes, then at least Quad, if no, then Duo.
2.) think simple, start with internal (applications) and one external (audio, samples,video) and one large disk to backup everything.
3.) check OWC computing for certified RAM
4.) start with just one drive and see what happens...
5.) yes, but you can get used to both. i would consider only using one DAW to start with. I record Albums with big amounts of Midi and VI tracks and Audio and Kontakt instances on just Pro Tools!
6.) your project can reference to the samples on the sample disk or import them as audio file copies ino your project folder, your choice (same on pro tools)!
7.) take it easy, start small, gather your own experiences!


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