Memory problem?

[SomeOtherGuy]

I have a 2014 6-core Mac Pro with 64 GB of RAM. Running 12.7.1. However, after loading 10 to 15 instances of Kontakt loaded with memory-intensive libraries (strings), after Pro Tools boots up I'll get a spinning beachball for as long as 5 minutes. Also, this also happens once out of every 5 times after adding new tracks of any kind, or after committing tracks. Spinning beachball for 1 to as long as 5 minutes.

I can see in Activity Monitor that Pro Tools is only taking 20 GB of memory with these libraries loaded. I have 64 GB total physical memory with over 25 GB free, so this shouldn't be happening. As I remove instances of Kontakt, one by one, the hang time becomes less and less.

Did the same test in Logic with no issues whatsoever.

I have an open case with Avid Support on this, but so far they don't have an answer.

Any thoughts?

[Extreme Mixing]

You have just summarized what many here experience with Pro Tools and virtual instruments. Compared to Logic, performance is abysmal. I mixed a project in Logic Tuesday that had about 40 audio tracks and 40 VI's with no problem. I could never do that in Pro Tools. The troubles just go on and on. That said, there are many things I prefer about the way Pro Tools works, and I'm much better at running it. That will change in the next few months. On the other hand, for audio tracks, Pro Tools is the king of the hill. I have HD native and I love the advanced mixing tools and the way it works. 200 audio tracks is not problem with PT. I also love the way that it's organized into the edit and the mix page. Very simple and easy to navigate large sessions.

When you consider that Logic was $199 and the Apollo Twin was $450 used, it's such a bargain. And I have to say that it's not that Logic doesn't work, the problem is me! That will change. So... I have to hope that Avid gets their act together. I have 20 years into using Pro Tools, and I'm very good at using it. But to remain loyal to a product that may not be the best tool for every job is foolish. I am getting better with Logic every time I use it.

[SomeOtherGuy]

So I'm not the only one. That's good and bad...

Also, what do you mean, that it will change? Are you referring to the upcoming 12.8 update, or that you'll be going over to Logic?

I hear you on Logic. I know it as well as Pro Tools, but would prefer to stay here. However, if you can't get the work done, that answers the question.

Thanks.

[25ghosts]

Originally Posted by SomeOtherGuy

I have a 2014 6-core Mac Pro with 64 GB of RAM. Running 12.7.1. However, after loading 10 to 15 instances of Kontakt loaded with memory-intensive libraries (strings), after Pro Tools boots up I'll get a spinning beachball for as long as 5 minutes. Also, this also happens once out of every 5 times after adding new tracks of any kind, or after committing tracks. Spinning beachball for 1 to as long as 5 minutes.

I can see in Activity Monitor that Pro Tools is only taking 20 GB of memory with these libraries loaded. I have 64 GB total physical memory with over 25 GB free, so this shouldn't be happening. As I remove instances of Kontakt, one by one, the hang time becomes less and less.

Did the same test in Logic with no issues whatsoever.

I have an open case with Avid Support on this, but so far they don't have an answer.

Any thoughts?

Logic is state of the art. It employs lazy-loading of files.

If Protools has to load 20GB of samples from Disk into RAM it will take as long as it takes to read 20 GB from disk (Depending on Concurrency). Logic and Apple in general is very smart at what they do and use all kinds of trickery to make an app appear fast.

If you load a Logic Project and it has to cache 20GB of Samples in RAM
1) It will let you the user launch the App and make it respond to your gestures.
Making you believe it has loaded all the samples but it has not.

2) Spawn Multiple Background threads on as many Cores as the CPU has and concurrently loading those samples. And hopefully they will be loaded by the time you hit play. Also - I bet that Logic will have taken note of WHICH samples (Notes) are used in the arrangement and load those FIRST - in case you hit play fast ;-)

Apple makes heavy use of Grand Central Dispatch and thus utilizes each and every core on the Mac. That takes years of study and enormous skill - NOT to code - but to design. Judging by the speed of Protools in general - they are not leveraging newer Apple technologies very well (Not that GCD is very new) and in many cases probably leave CPU Cores idle where they could be churning at full speed.

They can't make the disk faster than AVID but via hyper threading in theory you divide the load of 20GB from disk amongst i.e. 16 Cores as opposed to one - and utilize Lazy Loading and thus doing it all in the background and leaving the User Interface ready for the user to operate on your general user experience is going to be MUCH better and you won't have forum posts like this on your web site.

Logic when it first appeared had no audio at all and was made for composition. Protools was made for recording. Both implemented the idiom of the other and today both do audio and midi. Alas Protools is at least 10 years behind Logic in VI and Composition whereas Logic is quickly closing the gap on the advance that Protools still has in audio. But give Logic a year or two and I believe that they will surpass PT unless AVID drastically change their future.

It is 2017 - charging $1000 a year for a software that does audio only (midi in PT does not count) is a hopeless sign of extreme optimism.

[SomeOtherGuy]

Thanks for all the info. I can see this possibly happening upon first opening of a file, but even then, with the SSDs I use for samples libraries, I can see/verify Pro Tools loads all these samples in less than 30 seconds.

But the real problem is that this doesn't explain (or somehow does it?) the 5 minute spinning-beachball wait after committing a track or after adding new tracks of any kind.

Once the 20 GB load from my SSDs into RAM, why should it take 3 - 5 minutes to simply add a new track or commit a track? (4 out of 5 times after you add or commit a track, you get it instantly, but the 5th time you wait 5 minutes.)

Thanks.

[25ghosts]

Originally Posted by SomeOtherGuy

Thanks for all the info. I can see this possibly happening upon first opening of a file, but even then, with the SSDs I use for samples libraries, I can see/verify Pro Tools loads all these samples in less than 30 seconds.

But the real problem is that this doesn't explain (or somehow does it?) the 5 minute spinning-beachball wait after committing a track or after adding new tracks of any kind.

Once the 20 GB load from my SSDs into RAM, why should it take 3 - 5 minutes to simply add a new track or commit a track? (4 out of 5 times after you add or commit a track, you get it instantly, but the 5th time you wait 5 minutes.)

Thanks.

OK That is weird.. Perhaps some bug inside PT where it forces a reload of samples upon insertion of new track. Perhaps Protools is paging the RAM to disk etc etc... Check your virtual memory when this issue happens inside of Activity Monitor when this happens.

Probably a small bug which reveals itself in rare cases of extreme amounts of Memory.

Most likely some kind of rearrangement is taking place. Perhaps a small bug causing random reload of data from disk. You could also check the disk activity from Activity Monitor during this issue and report to AVID.

Of course, NI could also be at fault. Does this issue happen with other VIs and large memory amounts in PT ?

[SomeOtherGuy]

Thanks, I'll try your suggestions. I have a case open with Avid on this too.

[arche3]

Native instruments is the issue. I have it too. If you run vep pro it goes away. But it still happens if I get a 9173 in protools then vep messes up too.

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[SomeOtherGuy]

Originally Posted by arche3

Native instruments is the issue. I have it too. If you run vep pro it goes away. But it still happens if I get a 9173 in protools then vep messes up too.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

I just did a test and ran 50 loaded instances of Vienna Instruments Pro (not VE Pro), some with Dimension Strings which use a ton of memory, and no problem with Pro Tools. It's Kontakt. I wonder if anyone at NI will fix this, or if Avid is even aware of the problem.

[arche3]

Originally Posted by SomeOtherGuy

I just did a test and ran 50 load instances of Vienna Instruments Pro (not VE Pro), some with Dimension Strings which use a ton of memory , no problem with Pro Tools. It's Kontakt. I wonder if anyone at NI will fix this, or if Avid is even aware of the problem.

NI won't fix it. I've talked to their tech support about kontact and protools. They say it's avid issue.

But if I run kontact in vepro inside protools it works perfectly.

So i say it's avid and NI fault.

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