Memory problem?

[25ghosts]

Originally Posted by arche3

NI won't fix it. I've talked to their tech support about kontact and protools. They say it's avid issue.

But if I run kontact in vepro inside protools it works perfectly.

So i say it's avid and NI fault.

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Kontakt may work well in other apps but not in Protools and still it can be NI's fall (Not saying it is)... AAX has different Protocols and SDKs and rules than Apple for AU and VST etc. NI doesn't code ONE plug that then runs everywhere. They code EACH for each version of the plug-in.

[Marsdy]

Originally Posted by SomeOtherGuy

I have a 2014 6-core Mac Pro with 64 GB of RAM. Running 12.7.1. However, after loading 10 to 15 instances of Kontakt loaded with memory-intensive libraries (strings), after Pro Tools boots up I'll get a spinning beachball for as long as 5 minutes. Also, this also happens once out of every 5 times after adding new tracks of any kind, or after committing tracks. Spinning beachball for 1 to as long as 5 minutes.

I can see in Activity Monitor that Pro Tools is only taking 20 GB of memory with these libraries loaded. I have 64 GB total physical memory with over 25 GB free, so this shouldn't be happening. As I remove instances of Kontakt, one by one, the hang time becomes less and less.

Did the same test in Logic with no issues whatsoever.

I have an open case with Avid Support on this, but so far they don't have an answer.

Any thoughts?

I found Kontakt horribly unstable in 12.7 and 12.7.1. Just constant crashes. 12.6.1 works SO much better here both in OSX 10.10.5 and 10.12.3. Super smooth, 40 instances streaming away all day every day.

Only slight gotcha is the odd -9173 error when I put a very CPU intensive/RAM hungry instrument into record and the dual buffer kicks in.

[arche3]

Originally Posted by 25ghosts

Kontakt may work well in other apps but not in Protools and still it can be NI's fall (Not saying it is)... AAX has different Protocols and SDKs and rules than Apple for AU and VST etc. NI doesn't code ONE plug that then runs everywhere. They code EACH for each version of the plug-in.

I think because when you use vepro then kontact is essentially running stand alone. Which should work. But kontact just doesn't play well with other programs. Logic users complain as well. As I have tried to use it in logic. But logic is way better for kontact.

Overall I blame avid. But I have used NI for years and I always have had issues with their software playing nice with others.



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[KV626]

Originally Posted by 25ghosts

Logic is state of the art. It employs lazy-loading of files.

If Protools has to load 20GB of samples from Disk into RAM it will take as long as it takes to read 20 GB from disk (Depending on Concurrency). Logic and Apple in general is very smart at what they do and use all kinds of trickery to make an app appear fast.

If you load a Logic Project and it has to cache 20GB of Samples in RAM
1) It will let you the user launch the App and make it respond to your gestures.
Making you believe it has loaded all the samples but it has not.

2) Spawn Multiple Background threads on as many Cores as the CPU has and concurrently loading those samples. And hopefully they will be loaded by the time you hit play. Also - I bet that Logic will have taken note of WHICH samples (Notes) are used in the arrangement and load those FIRST - in case you hit play fast ;-)

Apple makes heavy use of Grand Central Dispatch and thus utilizes each and every core on the Mac. That takes years of study and enormous skill - NOT to code - but to design. Judging by the speed of Protools in general - they are not leveraging newer Apple technologies very well (Not that GCD is very new) and in many cases probably leave CPU Cores idle where they could be churning at full speed.

I've started a new project that currently uses 2 Battery instances, 4 Kontakt, 4 Massive, 3 Synthmaster, 2 Absynth. 15 VIs, nothing too fancy. In Pro Tools cpu easily reaches 25%+ during playback (only the VIs are playing in realtime at the moment). Since I wanted to use Alchemy, I exported a MIDI file and rebuilt the same setup in Logic. CPU never gets above 9%. This is with the exact same number of tracks, instruments, and patches.

[lesbrunn]

Originally Posted by Extreme Mixing

You have just summarized what many here experience with Pro Tools and virtual instruments. Compared to Logic, performance is abysmal. I mixed a project in Logic Tuesday that had about 40 audio tracks and 40 VI's with no problem. I could never do that in Pro Tools. The troubles just go on and on.

It's a hopeless case with PT and VI's. I can only work with VEP running VSTI's.

On the other hand, for audio tracks, Pro Tools is the king of the hill.

Time was, when that was true. I recently said something similar to what you just said, but I want to withdraw it. The tools and ease of use are still the best, but the robust stability is gone. Increasingly, I get irrecoverable crashes while editing audio. ( PT12.4 Win 10 Pro, SSD's for OS, samples and audio, 6-core i7, 64GB ram). I get assertions just cutting and pasting audio! Also when doing a lot of clip gain editing. It works well a few times, then suddenly breaks down. I'm not new to PT, so I've done all the necessary optimizations and even more. I do regular maintenance on the OS, drives and PT. I've reinstalled PT a few times, and that seems to help initially. But it gradually starts deteriorating again. I get most of these crashes when editing, not mixing. And this is entirely different from -9173, which I still get quite often.

[john1192]

may i ask .. are you gents using Kontakt Server or Pro Tools to service the Memory for Kontakt ????

i agree with all you say, i also see sometimes that (for lack of better description) Pro Tools Grabs Kontakt before it can Start it's own Server .. you do not see it load in the Menu Bar .. frustrating ..

i know Avid is aware and very concerned about Midi / VI issues .. i am doing my best to document and have the patience for this to be fixed .. and patience can be thin these days, with the way things are progressing .. my next payment to Avid is not until September - hoping we can a few good Stability things by then for midi / VI's ..

not sure i would have the same patience if i was a small studio with HD ..

all of us that use PT everyday and are comfortable and those that need to move / trade sessions with others on PT and Studios that use it all we can do if hang in there .. or move to another platform for midi / VI ..

my .02 for a sunday morning ..

john

[SomeOtherGuy]

Originally Posted by john1192

may i ask .. are you gents using Kontakt Server or Pro Tools to service the Memory for Kontakt ????

i agree with all you say, i also see sometimes that (for lack of better description) Pro Tools Grabs Kontakt before it can Start it's own Server .. you do not see it load in the Menu Bar .. frustrating ..

i know Avid is aware and very concerned about Midi / VI issues .. i am doing my best to document and have the patience for this to be fixed .. and patience can be thin these days, with the way things are progressing .. my next payment to Avid is not until September - hoping we can a few good Stability things by then for midi / VI's ..


john

I did a test with multiple instances of Kontakt using Kontakt's own memory server, but still got the issue. I will try this again though.

You mentioned Avid is very concerned re MIDI/VI issues. Are you in some sort of communication with Avid? Are they aware of this problem?

Thanks.

[Courtlaw]

VE PRo 6 is your answer

[SomeOtherGuy]

Originally Posted by Courtlaw

VE PRo 6 is your answer

I hear you, and I do understand VE Pro is great for a lot of people's setups (I used it years ago, pre-64-bit), however, with 64-bit Pro Tools we should not have to use it. I don't want to lose faster-than-realtime MIDI Commit to Audio, which I would with VE Pro.

I'd prefer Avid fix this.

Thanks.

[JFreak]

Perhaps it's that Kontakt isn't fully AAX-compatible? It's some kind of VST-to-AAX wrapped code and if so it will cause problems. I don't really know, but I suspect this is the case.