TDM support in Pro Tools 11 petition.

[zedhed]

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm

TDM was nice, is still nice for folks running it, but its such technically antiquated stuff the very last thing Avid should be doing is trying to keep this alive vs. focusing all available resources on a new clean rewrite.
Darryl

I totally agree with a clean re-write of the code. But isn't the OP saying it's possible to do this and still keep support for TDM?

From a purely marketing point of view I can understand why Avid (or any other company) would not necessarily want to do this. They want to sell new hardware as well as new software.

[bacchus40]

Originally Posted by Dism

Then it won't matter because the point is moot?
...

... Besides, I'm pretty sure we still have close to another year left of PT10.

+1, technology and progress, you can count on it...

as its the only way to stay alive... you need to sell your current line.! period

[Southsidemusic]

Hey Guys

I know I am new to PT since we used PT 6.9 and jumped to Logic Pro and now PT10HD native so bare with me..

In Pro Tools 11, will our native plugins work if they are aax and will our newly purchased native card be able to work in PT11? Asking as we are buying a lot of plugins and for example, we bought McDsp bundles Retro and Classic in Native AAX format so they are working in aax and not rtas so will all aax both native and dsp work or will PT11 only support the HDX cards?

I am sooooo confused as to what way to go here.. Stay with Native and upgrade to HDX when 11 comes out answell as buying a new Mac that can take 64bit, the one we have now working awesome is a 1.1 version with 10.6.8 so clearly I am aware it is old but runs extremely well in our Native production room.

I know it is a stupid question but if the native aax plugins WONT work in PT11 then we wont keep buying more as it is dead money here!

Chris

[Dism]

Originally Posted by zedhed

I totally agree with a clean re-write of the code. But isn't the OP saying it's possible to do this and still keep support for TDM?

The OP is saying it's possible for PT to be 64 bit and for TDM to exist. However, this would mean having to retain all the antiquated TDM and/or RTAS code.

Can you imagine how bloated Pro Tools would get if they had to rebuilt the entire engine in 64 bit while retaining all of the old TDM architecture? More bugs, larger installer files, and no clean rewrite of the engine. The more I think about it, the more it sounds like a massive waste of time and resources for Avid who is already hurting for time and staff.

Look at how many people are still using 8.x. They felt they wanted to hang on to what they had, and they continue to use their considerably limiting and antiquated version of Pro Tools because it still works for them. It's going to be the same way with TDM. Obviously not everyone is going to want to throw away their investment, even when PT11 comes out, and in 5 years there will still be those few guys still running PT10 on HD3, even if Pro Tools and Avid are extinct by then.

[Dism]

Originally Posted by Southsidemusic

Hey Guys

I know I am new to PT since we used PT 6.9 and jumped to Logic Pro and now PT10HD native so bare with me..

In Pro Tools 11, will our native plugins work if they are aax and will our newly purchased native card be able to work in PT11? Asking as we are buying a lot of plugins and for example, we bought McDsp bundles Retro and Classic in Native AAX format so they are working in aax and not rtas so will all aax both native and dsp work or will PT11 only support the HDX cards?

I am sooooo confused as to what way to go here.. Stay with Native and upgrade to HDX when 11 comes out answell as buying a new Mac that can take 64bit, the one we have now working awesome is a 1.1 version with 10.6.8 so clearly I am aware it is old but runs extremely well in our Native production room.

I know it is a stupid question but if the native aax plugins WONT work in PT11 then we wont keep buying more as it is dead money here!

Chris

Of course AAX native will work in PT11. That's the whole point of AAX. HD Native card is fine for the foreseeable future as well.

It's only TDM that is going by the wayside as far as HD goes.

[Southsidemusic]

Originally Posted by Dism

Of course AAX native will work in PT11. That's the whole point of AAX. HD Native card is fine for the foreseeable future as well.

It's only TDM that is going by the wayside as far as HD goes.

Thank you for clarifying this to me. I got really confused as I read a thread in the Plugins board here but thanx a mill. Now we can keep buying more great plugins and not worry and that is huge for us!

You Rock
Chris

[Darryl Ramm]

Originally Posted by zedhed

I totally agree with a clean re-write of the code. But isn't the OP saying it's possible to do this and still keep support for TDM?

In the end the answer to all these sorts of question of 'is it possible' is sure its just software--so you can ultimately do just about anything. The question really is do you want to? There might well be some 32/64 bit wrinkles with how DMA happens (the supposed "Digidesign advanced DMA") to/from the TDM/DSP boards but without any exposure to the internals I cannot say (and it so annoying that Avid disables debugging Pro Tools... ) but again given a willingness there is always likely some (maybe horribly complex) software workaround.

Any scheme where you tried to continue to support for legacy TDM hardware will add complexity and problems to a code base that we are already going to have issues with just because its all so new/first full 64 bit support. And for what purpose to support a decade+ old hardware DSP technology that takes many PCIe slots to deliver aggregate processing power that is a fraction for a single multi-core chip (and project ahead 1-2 years in processor development)? And I know TDM/DSP is not all about raw compute processing, but on the other hand it will eventually lag so far behind native processing that at some point it will just becomes an utter joke (and that point varies depending on your use).

Darryl

[Emcha_audio]

Originally Posted by Marsdy

They already have.... It's called Pro Tools 10. It supports TDM/RTAS AND AAX Native.....

Pro Tools 10 is a transitionary release. I am suggesting Avid do the same thing with Pro Tools 11 because of the chronic shortage of HDX plug-ins.

In case you hadn't noticed. I am already petitioning Waves for an HDX version.
http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=328564

Avid can make this easy on themselves, and I suspect they are doing so. Easy way to fight the plugin shortage.. keep pt 10 alive until most plugins manufacturer has made their plugins available. It gives them more time to work on PT 11 and add other features while waiting on the third parties to catch up.

[Emcha_audio]

Originally Posted by zedhed

I totally agree with a clean re-write of the code. But isn't the OP saying it's possible to do this and still keep support for TDM?

From a purely marketing point of view I can understand why Avid (or any other company) would not necessarily want to do this. They want to sell new hardware as well as new software.

Yes and it was said ad nauseam that it is not possible. Neither RTAS nor TDM can work in the environment that is needed for 1) 64 bit pro tools, 2) faster than real time processing and a hole other enchiladas that many are asking for.

[CME]

Originally Posted by Emcha_audio

Avid can make this easy on themselves, and I suspect they are doing so. Easy way to fight the plugin shortage.. keep pt 10 alive until most plugins manufacturer has made their plugins available. It gives them more time to work on PT 11 and add other features while waiting on the third parties to catch up.

In a way this I true. But I also think releasing an aax only version will also be beneficial. It would show just how much better aax is. Which might get developers moving a little faster also. So maybe a bit of both. Release pt11 ASAP, but keep updating pt10 a little longer for those not ready to transition.