Is Pro Tools dying?

[benherron.rrr]

This is not meant to be a hateful, anti-avid thread, but I find myself asking the question.

When PT9 came out it seemed to be a massive, fairly well received event, a year later with the release of PT10 it seemed to pass by with the subtlety of tumble weed. I was really shocked by PT HDX (although I have nothing to do with it), I thought that it would be a really big deal to a lot of people. Pro Tools being the self acclaimed 'industry standard' I expected AAX to be in full swing by now, with every developer eager to jump on the band wagon, yet I can't help but get the impression that nobody cares about it, not even Avid. Perhaps everyone is waiting for the release of PT11, but if that is the case, what was the point in 10? Why didn't they get on stage and say "hey guys, next year PT11 (or what would have been 10) is coming out, which will support a new plugin format and only that format, and will be 64bit, get planning for the transition". I expected PT HDX to be released along with all the AAX plugs people could get their hands on, running to the store to upgrade/purchase and avid being unable to keep up with demand. It seems like the people who have jumped ship were met not by open arms, but by a baseball bat ready to disable their production.

Even the lack of Avid's presence on these forums, esp the lack of interest in the problem us windows guys are having with constant freezes. I can't help but feeling that PT10 was just a scam, they took our money and have disappeared off the face of the earth never to be seen again.

I feel like I am using a great product, a product that I am very happy with, yet a product that feels somewhat cheap and incomplete. Like a lot of franchises, I feel Pro Tools was intended to be a great, innovative, professional product but over time as they realised people would upgrade regardless, they became lazy and decided to take the money without ploughing it back into development.

Is Pro Tools dying?

[C]

Some very valid points made and actually well thought out.

Argument against informing people about the plugin format change (besides the legal SOX compliance c**p) would be that until it was available to use people who develop might not have made the jump anyway. We've got a year to plan etc, nobody is using this new format blah blah blah.

PT10 is both a culmination and a signpost.

It is the culmination of the first 20 years of development, of creating a market and by then dominating that market.
It is a signpost for the next 20 years. It's the first step to 64bit compatibility, it's a new architecture that will remove some of the obstacles that have stood in the way of progress for a good number of years.

By introducing AAX alongside RTAS and TDM they have given developers time to continue with their existing developments at the same time as planning for the future. It's a very similar model that Apple took when transitioning from 68000 to PowerPC and then to intel. That they continue to take with the transition from 32-64 bit. When Microsoft have done similar transitions (less processor as it's been pretty universal from day 1) it hasn't been this way. Windows 32-bit and Windows 64-bit were two separate platforms, requiring separate purchases etc. Not anti-microsoft just an example.

Don't get me wrong, I think that there have been missteps over the past few months starting with the pricing models being significantly different from previous upgrades but to jump from a large number of angry DUC posts to calling the product dying is quite a stretch.

The thing with user forums is that very few people ever come to post that everything is fine and has improved their workflows dramatically.

I work in Post. I have no need for VI's in my workflow so as a package PT10 ticks a lot of boxes on my wish list. Yes there are bugs in the program but overall it is a more stable release than there has been for some time.

I wouldn't sound the death knell quite yet. PT10 is a transition not a destination.

Slightly more than my 2c worth. Hope it makes some sense.

Ceri

[jryser]

Two absolutely amazing POV's. I am hopeful that someone from Avid will speak to this just as constructively. I love my PT 10 and hope to keep the love of its continued growth intact.


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[TimNielsen]

My take on it is ProTools isn't dying, but it's fairly sick and in need of medical attention. There are several things keeping it sick.

One is that it's an old patient, one that has been receiving minimal care for too long, band aided and patched up, while the core was rotting away. So in PT10 we see the beginning of some major transplant work, but it's complicated. I suspect PT11 has a better chance when they don't have to keep up compatibility. PT11 will be a major hassle too, but as a piece of software it probably has more of a chance. PT10 has some great features, but it has the worst bug ever I've seen in PT, and I personally a, plagued by CPU errors that Avid knows about, but hasn't once responded here about, and so far hasn't been able to fix.

The biggest problem in my eyes is with the leadership of Avid. Huge layoffs, outsourcing, stock price dropping massively only shows that people have no faith. Whoever decided the the PT10 upgrade should cost 1000 to 2500 dollars should be fired immediately. The president and CEO should be sacked by the board as well, because over the last few years he has succesfully eroded years of good faith a lot of us had in the company. Not to mention driven the company into the ground financially.

So the real problem is from the top down.

But it's true, I think the lack of developers releasing AAX is indicative at least of hesitancy on their part about the future of PT. But I'm sure the lackluster sale of HDX cards isn't helping.

See this is where Avid keeps screwing up. I was an HD3 user. When the PT10 upgrade came out, I had to choose. I could spend 1000 for the software, or spend 1450 to cross grade to an HD Native Card, a move that yield me more tracks, better internal mixing and a card that will hopefully stay current.

The other choice would have been to wait for HDX. But at the yet agin ridiculous upgrade price, the lack of ANY of the plugins I use in AAX, I would have been spending thousands to use an HDX card AS a HD Native Card. It just made no sense.

So I went to HD Native, sold my HD3 and at this point won't be going back to DSP. Had the software upgrade been the more appropriate $350 I would have upgraded, waited a bit, and probably have gone the HDX route when AAX was really ready. Or if the HD to HDX prices weren't so insulting, I might have gone that route. In the end Avid lost the chance to get five times more money from me.

I still have hope that after all the layoffs of customer service, programmers etc., that some of the leadership will turn over and we will see the reemergence of Avid as a solid company.

[Drew Mazurek]

If PT is sick and/or dying, what will take its place? Cubendo? That company can't survive on its own and is now owned by Yamaha. Not exactly encouraging. Logic is a loss leader for Apple selling iPhones and iPads like CDs and DVDs are for Walmart. DP just went Windows but its installed based is TINY. Reaper? Don't think so. Sonar, Cakewalk, Pyramix? hmmmmm nope. There are probably more PT users NOW, than ever before.

What was the question again??

[Bob Olhsson]

People have been predicting the impending demise of Pro Tools for 20 years. My experience has been most simply don't know enough about why people use Pro Tools.

[capt kirk]

God help us if it is. the only audio software left worth keeping, as the rest are going to die slowly. like it or hate it, it has the critical mass, and will be used for ever. the rest are walking dead, except logic, as its bundled with apple. unless the Audiofile somehow comes back to life....and adds 15 years of upgrades ...bwhahah

[Dot]

Good topic here, from my perspective i can say Avid is a king of marketing, just like apple is, just in a different field of industry. When it comes to PT9-10 and so on, looking from perspective of time It improved a lot, Pro Tools 9 was actually 1st pro tools i was fully happy with, Pro Tools 10 with few added options is even better, the question now is... some of the PT10 features should of been added to ver9. I mean difference between 9 and 10 is really not revolutionary, as it was between 8 and 9 but on the other side, at least we see a progress that avid is doing with the product. We all know windows/pro tools issues that people have, but at the same time people who use macs deal with some issues as well.

I'd say pro tools is way much delicate when it comes to other software. Upgrade part now... we went from $150 (LE version) when digidesign was in charge, to $300, and I understand cross grading pro tools 8 to 9 for $300, but 9 to 10... this actually hurts. I also think when it comes to HD guys it's just unfair to charge $1000. Looking at bigger picture, yes HD = big studios no biggie, but again more and more home studios or project studios use HD systems... for me it's like Apples tactics. Yes we live pro tools, but for money we spend on it users should be a little bit more respected. And I'm not a guy who will complain on avids customer service because all the encounters i had with it were good.

I don't think pro tools is dying, but a lot of people just turn back on it for software like f.e. reaper. I think avid is in a stage where they think the monopoly is theirs, i might be wrong but it feels like that.

Personally i love pro tools, the software is great by itself... is it worth it... yes it is, but as a long time pro tools user I spent a lot of $ into it. Avid comes up with new versions each year for the sake of money, but deep inside i hope last 2 years were like this just because a lot of changes were made so we had to pay that extra dollar, we'll see what future brings. One good thing is that plugin prices went down a lot, from a perspective software- plugins.. 1 plugin might be more expensive than entire DAW... is it fair or unfair, good or bad... decide on your own.

Me n Pro Tools have this love n hate relationship, marriage type'a thing lol. I hate when its on "period" acting all up, but when it works properly and everything goes smooth I can't complain at all most of the time it works great, from time to time i have 1-2 days of break to figure out what the hell is going on.

[recordingrevolution]

Some great points here. I don't think Pro Tools is dying. It is merely evolving and growing, and that is never a pain-free process.

If you look at the landscape of Pro Tools products available now, there is so much more variety and more entry points for the pro and the hobbyest alike! Pro Tools MP 9 with an M-Audio interface is a crazy good setup for a home or project studio, giving you way more than Pro Tools LE used to.

And Pro Tools 10 is the most stable, speedy, and fun to use version of Pro Tools I've used (been on since version 6).

The pricing and the way Pro Tools 10 was launched seemed out of the blue to me, but again, Avid is making changes and they are doing what they can to stay on top and stay relevant.

The software isn't dying, it's better than it's ever been!

[Bob Olhsson]

Originally Posted by Dot

from my perspective i can say Avid is a king of marketing, .

From mine digidesign and Avid's marketing has always been a complete train wreck and they became successful in spite of very very bad marketing!

This was entirely because they listened to users by far the best of any DAW developer. There are several ways to do anything and one is generally the perfect work-flow for some particular professional studio application.