Avid Pro Audio Community

Avid Pro Audio Community

How to Join & Post  •  Community Terms of Use  •  Help Us Help You

Knowledge Base Search  •  Community Search  •  Additional Resources


Avid Home Page

Go Back   Avid Pro Audio Community > Pro Tools Software > Pro Tools 2018

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 12-12-2018, 10:14 AM
marcelkavka marcelkavka is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 37
Default 5.1 channel order

Hi,

does anyone know how PT manages interleaved multichannel files when importing them? Is there any signature in the file which tells about the track order and does PT read it?
I have 5.1 files from several sources and the tracks are mixed up all the time. C is R or LFE/LS/RS vs. LS/RS/LFS. All this film/smpte/dts stuff. it's a pitty that you are never sure. Ambiences are hard to analyse whether R and C is in the right place.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 12-13-2018, 10:38 AM
feliponk's Avatar
feliponk feliponk is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Miami, FL, USA
Posts: 1,184
Default Re: 5.1 channel order

Hi: that info should be part of the file header, or the metadata.
__________________
Felipe Gonzalez A.
Avid ACSR Elite
Dante Certified
http://felipousismix.wix.com/felipousismix

https://soundcloud.com/felipegonzalez-1-1/tracks

Custom Mac Pro OSX 10.12 | Windows 10 Pro 64 | ProTools HD 10/12 | Pyramix V 10 | Merging HAPI ADA8 | MBox 3 | UAD Quad PCIe | Avid Artist Mix | JBL LSR 305 | Universal Audio, Slate Digital, McDSP, Fabfilter, Plugin Alliance among other plugins| Avid Media Composer
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 12-13-2018, 02:14 PM
off the wall's Avatar
off the wall off the wall is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: NYC-NJ
Posts: 140
Default Re: 5.1 channel order

Quote:
Originally Posted by marcelkavka View Post
Hi,

does anyone know how PT manages interleaved multichannel files when importing them? Is there any signature in the file which tells about the track order and does PT read it?
I have 5.1 files from several sources and the tracks are mixed up all the time. C is R or LFE/LS/RS vs. LS/RS/LFS. All this film/smpte/dts stuff. it's a pitty that you are never sure. Ambiences are hard to analyse whether R and C is in the right place.
It's a mess and not just because of Avid.

I do a lot of 5.1 for network TV and film. I always deliver in six discrete mono files and ask the same to be supplied to me. That way no mistakes are made.
__________________
offthewallproductions
Mac Pro 5,1 3.46 Ghz 12 core, AMD 7970 GPU, SSD boot drive on 6Gb/sec PCIe card, 22GB RAM, MacOS 10.13.6.
Pro Tools Ultimate 2018.12. HDX, UA Octo PCIe cards, HD I/O, C|24 control surface.
Mostly Avid, Waves, Sonnex and UAD Plug-ins
Genelec 1031AP/7070A 5.1 monitoring.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 12-15-2018, 04:59 AM
cut cut is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: CT
Posts: 77
Default Re: 5.1 channel order

Quote:
Originally Posted by marcelkavka View Post
Hi,

does anyone know how PT manages interleaved multichannel files when importing them? Is there any signature in the file which tells about the track order and does PT read it?
I have 5.1 files from several sources and the tracks are mixed up all the time. C is R or LFE/LS/RS vs. LS/RS/LFS. All this film/smpte/dts stuff. it's a pitty that you are never sure. Ambiences are hard to analyse whether R and C is in the right place.
Set your output order to SMPTE in the I/O page - below the grid - and the interleaved WAV files will follow that order despite being in the FILM format in the session. I worked with AVID on this as we do a ton of 5.1 at NBC Sports. This absolutely works - we did a ton of tests.

For AAF export I always split the 5.1 tracks into the proper SMPTE order from top to bottom prior to export.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 12-15-2018, 07:11 AM
Frank Kruse Frank Kruse is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: old europe
Posts: 5,301
Default Re: 5.1 channel order

Quote:
Originally Posted by cut View Post
Set your output order to SMPTE in the I/O page - below the grid - and the interleaved WAV files will follow that order despite being in the FILM format in the session. I worked with AVID on this as we do a ton of 5.1 at NBC Sports. This absolutely works - we did a ton of tests.
Wow, this was complete news to me
Do you know from which PT version it works this way? Used to be a complete mess from version to version. Film layout export but SMPTE import and vice versa depending on the version and never really documented or flagged in the fixed bug reports.

I just tried this by exporting a 5.0 file via commend-shift-K twice. Once in film and once in SMPTE order set in default path order and both came out at SMPTE order.

What's your secret?

Many thanks!

Frank
__________________
PTHDn 2018.12 (OSX10.13.6), 8x8x8, MacPro 5,1 3.33Ghz 12-Core, BM DeckLink SDI, SYNC HD, all genlocked via AJA GEN10, 48GB RAM
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 12-15-2018, 02:12 PM
BScout BScout is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 1,310
Default Re: 5.1 channel order

https://avid.secure.force.com/pkb/ar...FAQ&popup=true
__________________
Pro Tools Ult 2018.12, HDX 3, MTRX/SPQ, HD OmniMac Pro 5,1 - 3.06 GHz 12 core - macOS 10.12.6RAM 64GB, SSD 4 x 2TB, GPU GTX 980 4GB
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 12-15-2018, 08:26 PM
smurfyou smurfyou is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 376
Default Re: 5.1 channel order

Quote:
Originally Posted by BScout View Post
Frank is right, it's a mess and has always been a big undocumented lapse.

Take this FAQ above. I know for a fact I was outputting SMPTE order files in July of 2016 when that FAQ was written. Despite it saying PT can't do that. At some point, I think with PT11 they switched the output to default to SMPTE order.

I would ask for an option box to check on export but honestly the only times I deliver interleaved files are for clients that require SMPTE so it hasn't been a big deal. Otherwise I use multi-mono.
__________________
~Will
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 12-15-2018, 09:54 PM
TimNielsen TimNielsen is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 1,174
Default Re: 5.1 channel order

Pretty sure PT always exports files in SMPTE format, and always shows them in FILM format. I don't think you have any control at all over either.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 12-16-2018, 12:29 AM
BScout BScout is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 1,310
Default Re: 5.1 channel order

Quote:
Originally Posted by TimNielsen View Post
Pretty sure PT always exports files in SMPTE format, and always shows them in FILM format. I don't think you have any control at all over either.
Yup.

Just ran 3 tests. Always exports SMPTE order. Always shows FILM order.
Doesn't matter what path order is set in I/O.

FAQ is wrong

(even used Cubase to import/export 5.1 files from Pro Tools and always the same; in that way it's good news as everything stays outputting/routing correctly)
__________________
Pro Tools Ult 2018.12, HDX 3, MTRX/SPQ, HD OmniMac Pro 5,1 - 3.06 GHz 12 core - macOS 10.12.6RAM 64GB, SSD 4 x 2TB, GPU GTX 980 4GB
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 12-16-2018, 12:32 AM
BScout BScout is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 1,310
Default Re: 5.1 channel order

Quote:
Originally Posted by marcelkavka View Post
Is there any signature in the file which tells about the track order and does PT read it?
Obviously it depends on the source if it is creating it, but yes, there's a metadata block of "wave extensible format" in the wave file that Pro Tools (and other audio/video programs) is reading. Cubase has an option to turn off writing that chunk and then things go wrong. Otherwise both Pro Tools and Cubase are writing a SMPTE order chunk and importing into the respective DAWs with correct track order -- Cubase is SMPTE inside the DAW and Pro Tools is FILM inside the DAW.
__________________
Pro Tools Ult 2018.12, HDX 3, MTRX/SPQ, HD OmniMac Pro 5,1 - 3.06 GHz 12 core - macOS 10.12.6RAM 64GB, SSD 4 x 2TB, GPU GTX 980 4GB

Last edited by BScout; 12-16-2018 at 12:36 AM. Reason: bolded important part. if the source isn't creating it, then there's no guidance for Pro Tools
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Pro Tools 5.1 export channel order Charles Deenen Post - Surround - Video 27 06-08-2016 07:58 AM
CAF channel-order still wrong in 9.0.5 Arno Peeters Post - Surround - Video 3 07-26-2015 08:55 AM
BUG 11.2.2 PT messes up channel order when spotting from soundminer Frank Kruse Post - Surround - Video 4 11-29-2014 02:52 AM
Locked Channel order in Bus bcslaam Pro Tools 11 3 08-29-2013 01:11 PM
Can you change the default channel order of an interleaved.. dj_grimmace Post - Surround - Video 4 11-12-2007 09:10 AM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:48 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited. Forum Hosted By: URLJet.com