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  #11  
Old 01-26-2017, 02:56 PM
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JCBigler JCBigler is offline
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Default Re: HDX end-of-cycle?

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Originally Posted by audioluche View Post
Hi Frank.

Well, if you go HD native, you need an HD I/O too!
A Pro Tools HDX card + software is 4999$
A Pro Tools HD native card + software is 2999$.

So it's a 2000$ difference.
And if you go used, you can get the card and software for way cheaper. So the difference is small.
Actually, I happen to know that you can get the HDX card plus HD software, what Avid is calling the HDX Core package, for $3999. Of course the street price for the HD Native card plus HD software is less than $2999 also. (And there are better Digilink capable I/O units out here than Avid's).

At this point, the only reason to buy the HD Native card/Thunderbolt is if you need to record more than 32 inputs at the same time. And the HDX system gets you into the game for recording more than 64 inputs at the same time (Yes, I know you need 2 HDX cards to do it, but you have to have the first one anyway).

Otherwise, just buy the HD software.
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  #12  
Old 01-30-2017, 04:38 AM
Frank Kruse Frank Kruse is offline
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Default Re: HDX end-of-cycle?

The post I was responding to was referring to HDX2 vs. HDnative (which is the most logical next step up from HDn since HDX1 has the same amount of voices.
Actually HDX1 can have much less when you think about bussing and native plugins.

A large surround session with native plugs that runs fine on HDn will definitely not run on HDX1 and might not even run on HDX2 in some cases. This is very easy to prove.

If you tend to run large track count and lots of busses etc. I'd recommend HDn over HDX1 any time. In this case HDX1 is actually a step down if voice count is your priority.

If you need zero latency monitoring and only track 16-20 mic-ins as your daily business HDX1 can be an advantage.

So as I said it depends on what your criteria is. Just trying to give some perspective to the OP.


F.
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  #13  
Old 02-13-2017, 10:38 AM
fretfingers fretfingers is offline
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Default Re: HDX end-of-cycle?

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Originally Posted by Frank Kruse View Post
The post I was responding to was referring to HDX2 vs. HDnative (which is the most logical next step up from HDn since HDX1 has the same amount of voices.
Actually HDX1 can have much less when you think about bussing and native plugins.

A large surround session with native plugs that runs fine on HDn will definitely not run on HDX1 and might not even run on HDX2 in some cases. This is very easy to prove.

If you tend to run large track count and lots of busses etc. I'd recommend HDn over HDX1 any time. In this case HDX1 is actually a step down if voice count is your priority.

If you need zero latency monitoring and only track 16-20 mic-ins as your daily business HDX1 can be an advantage.

So as I said it depends on what your criteria is. Just trying to give some perspective to the OP.


F.

I'm not sure how you're coming to this conclusion. You realize that an HDX rig can still run all the plugins as Native too right? Am I missing something?
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  #14  
Old 02-13-2017, 02:13 PM
NobodyImportant NobodyImportant is offline
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Default Re: HDX end-of-cycle?

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Originally Posted by Jeffrey Talbot View Post
My PERSONAL, totally non-insider feeling is that Avid is moving to a totally software based DAW, meaning no more external DSP's on cards anymore.

As it is, you can buy a small HD Native card that connects to Avid I/O, including the new MTRX. It's just a matter of time before the card is gone, and the I/O attaches directly to the computer via Thunderbolt. (And as I'm writing this, I'm remembering all kinds of audio I/O that is already Thunderbolt)

As a very long-time PT user, all the way back to PT3, the whole AAX Plugin transition has been a bust. Yeah, there are some good ones, but by and large, even though I have an HDX setup, most of the plugs I use are Native, so I don't even need the HDX card. And that's not to say Avid won't / can't include DSP in the Audio I/O either, but from where I sit, no more DSP on PCIe cards.

So once Avid is done with outboard DSP, its all about Audio I/O, and they've already opened those barn doors pretty wide.

Agree 100%. I feel like HDX was a complete waste of money for me. I would never need to track more then 64 inputs at a time, will never have a session with a 256 track count, and have thousands invested into plugs that will never support AAX DSP. I've been thinking about selling my hdx card and just grabbing a used native card off ebay for a while now
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  #15  
Old 02-13-2017, 02:14 PM
NobodyImportant NobodyImportant is offline
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Default Re: HDX end-of-cycle?

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Originally Posted by fretfingers View Post
I'm not sure how you're coming to this conclusion. You realize that an HDX rig can still run all the plugins as Native too right? Am I missing something?
while mixing yes but not for input monitoring. I've had to create alternate channel strips with the avid dsp plugs for tracking vocals.
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  #16  
Old 02-13-2017, 02:17 PM
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arche3 arche3 is offline
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Default Re: HDX end-of-cycle?

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Originally Posted by fretfingers View Post
I'm not sure how you're coming to this conclusion. You realize that an HDX rig can still run all the plugins as Native too right? Am I missing something?
I run a combo of native and aax plugs on my hdx2 rig. Works fine. I can even mix and match the order of native and aax. Seems to work.

But tracking i just use aax dsp. But then again. The native one just grey out in record so it still works. The cue sends are post plug ins pre fader I believe.

I'm having no issues using native plugs at all. I can run a truck load of them. 12 core Mac pro.

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  #17  
Old 02-13-2017, 10:18 PM
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Default Re: HDX end-of-cycle?

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Originally Posted by NobodyImportant View Post
have thousands invested into plugs that will never support AAX DSP
Waves?
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  #18  
Old 02-14-2017, 07:40 AM
Frank Kruse Frank Kruse is offline
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Default Re: HDX end-of-cycle?

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Originally Posted by fretfingers View Post
I'm not sure how you're coming to this conclusion. You realize that an HDX rig can still run all the plugins as Native too right? Am I missing something?
Yes, I was talking about voice count not plugin processing power.

You lose voices when using native plugins in HDX just like you did with TDM. On a much smaller scale of course because the system has way more voices available than TDM but the principle remains. With heavy bussing and native plugins in Auxes etc. playback voices are "stolen" so in very large sessions the HDX will start to de-activate tracks as it needs lots of extra voices for the native plugs.

It's probably not an issue for music folks but us film post people do run into this problem. Session plays fine on HDn but on HDX1 it won't play all the tracks.

Frank.
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Last edited by Frank Kruse; 02-14-2017 at 08:01 AM.
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  #19  
Old 02-14-2017, 08:54 AM
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Default Re: HDX end-of-cycle?

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Originally Posted by Frank Kruse View Post
Yes, I was talking about voice count not plugin processing power.

You lose voices when using native plugins in HDX just like you did with TDM. On a much smaller scale of course because the system has way more voices available than TDM but the principle remains. With heavy bussing and native plugins in Auxes etc. playback voices are "stolen" so in very large sessions the HDX will start to de-activate tracks as it needs lots of extra voices for the native plugs.

It's probably not an issue for music folks but us film post people do run into this problem. Session plays fine on HDn but on HDX1 it won't play all the tracks.

Frank.
I'm confused even more now. you are telling me all the big hollywood scoring and mixing stages are using HDN? because of voice count issues?

Or are you specifically saying HDx1?
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  #20  
Old 02-14-2017, 09:26 AM
Frank Kruse Frank Kruse is offline
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Default Re: HDX end-of-cycle?

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Originally Posted by arche3 View Post
I'm confused even more now. you are telling me all the big hollywood scoring and mixing stages are using HDN? because of voice count issues?

Or are you specifically saying HDx1?
No, they can't use HDn because they usually need tons of outputs etc. to feed stem recorders etc. Normally you'll find HDX2 and HDX3. Rarely HDX1, unless it's for a dialogue playback machine that usually has far less tracks then an FX session.

What I'm saying is that you have to be aware of the fact that on HDX1 you will not always be able to play back 256 tracks (or the equivalent mono legs) depending on your session structure and the amount of native plugins. On HDn you will always be able to play back 246 mono track no matter how complex your bussing or plugin setup. Not so on HDX.
But since there's almost no way around using native plugs you'll always have some of them (Reverbs, Dolby Panner etc. etc) .

As a result you might be surprised how few DSP chips and voices you have on HDX1 or even HDX2 when you take your HDn session to such a stage.

It's essentially the exact same thing that happened on TDM when you had RTAS plugs in your session. Just on a different scale.

Many of the large HDn surround fx sessions will not play back on HDX1.

All I wanted to add was that this might be something to consider for the OP. It might not matter to him when he's tracking bands with 10 mics but since he didn't say what his field is I added this info.

Example: HDX1 for example will not be able to play back certain large HDn sessions even though they both have 256 voices.

So with that in mind: Moving from HDn to HDX1 can actually be a step down not up.


Frank.
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Last edited by Frank Kruse; 02-14-2017 at 09:37 AM.
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