HD Native now on Digi website

[formfunction]

Originally Posted by Dism

Those of us who are willing to pay the premium, are those of us who use Pro Tools for more than the features it doesn't have.

Are you including yourself in the "us"? Is that the "HD us"? Or the "hypothetical us"? Or just the "us" that likes to talk about all things HD?

[oreo1]

I'm a long time LE user. i don't know exactly what HD does, because I've never experienced it. Where I live, in semi-rural Pacific Northwest there are probably 6 other Protool studios. What most of you guys would call Project studios.

Out of the 6, all 6 use LE. About half use 002 or 003 and half use the M-Box. Everybody I know rarely records no more than 2 tracks at a time. In the biggest session I've seen in the past 2 years, a composer created about 25 tracks, but then stopped because his system started working like glue, so he bounced and bounced to get back to 8 tracks. When anyone here needs help, I'm usually the guy they call. But I can hardly follow this thread, because i don't know what half the abbreviations stand for.

That's all for background, and to add a different voice to this thread. Plus the fact, that so many of you guys are saying that this is being promoted as an upgrade for LE users. i don't think so. $5k or $6k for a system puts it beyond my own reach even though i would absolutely love a few of its features. But that includes few of the features that seem to be getting all the attention here.

I don't know anyone who needs access to so many tracks. I've never used more that 20. As far as sample rate goes, the local guys studying whale and bat vocals occasionally record at 192 sample rate. But 48 works just fine for everybody else. I've produced 5 CDs in the past four years, all done at 48.

I don't care at all about some "better" version of plugins. I'm quite happy using Ozone4 and TLSpaces, NI Reaktor, and Strike. Whether its because my ears are simply not as refined as so many of the rest of you, or whether you simply care more about mega-fidelity, my own market is producing for CDs and mp3 media. If i was doing big budget film, I'd probably care more, and also be able to afford it more easily.

Where I live, project studio folks primarily yearn for a Protools LE system that is simply stable. I'm still using a G5, (with 6 gb of memory) and i often wish i hadn't succumbed to upgrading to Protools 8, because it is simply not very stable on my mac. Most of the other people i know have similar stories. Some go back to using 7.6. I stick with 8, against my own better judgement, and even though 7.6 is stable on my G5, because i love the feature set, although 8 is the only software on my computer that regularly crashes. Probably this winter i'll get a new Intel mac desktop, and also give a long hard look to how to continue my semi-pro recording interests. I definitely won't spend $1500 on a Digi003, when it seems such a slight improvement from my 7 year old Digi002. Logic and Apogee are on the table. This explains why I just looked so hard at the new HD system.

I mostly yearn for an improved version of Protools 8 and hardware that doesn't slow down doing normal everyday stuff. My own Protools crashes about once a week, mostly because i either try to do too many things at once without giving the system a moment to catch up, or because I'm overloading on too many hungry plugins. So the VERY biggest draw for me, while reading about the new HD native system, is that so much of actual computing is done on the card. I want it. I want it.

I also care for better DA/AD converters. So there's two reasons for me to look hard at the HD system.

I'd buy the HD native system if it cost $2500 with the interface. No question about it. I'd probably buy it at the same time i buy the mac desktop. As it is, it cost way more than that. From my own LE vantage, the BIG selling feature — like zillions of available tracks — is nothing that interests me, only because I'll never use those features. And even if it was $2500, I would only buy it if it let's me use all my RTAS plugins. If it doesn't, it's still a deal breaker.

Hope this adds something to the discussion.

[nst7]

The only thing is, Oreo1, that hardly any computing is done on the card. It's basically to handle the I/O, Low Latency monitoring, and possibly part of the mixing (I'm still unclear about this).

[pezking]

Originally Posted by oreo1

I mostly yearn for an improved version of Protools 8 and hardware that doesn't slow down doing normal everyday stuff. My own Protools crashes about once a week, mostly because i either try to do too many things at once without giving the system a moment to catch up, or because I'm overloading on too many hungry plugins. So the VERY biggest draw for me, while reading about the new HD native system, is that so much of actual computing is done on the card. I want it. I want it.

Sounds like you actually want Pro Tools HD Accel, not Native. The only reasons HD Native might make things more stable is that you would have to upgrade to a Mac Pro... It sounds like you could get the more stable, more powerful system you desire by upgrading your Mac... That'd save you a lot of dosh over upgrading to HD Native ;-)

Originally Posted by nst7

The only thing is, Oreo1, that hardly any computing is done on the card. It's basically to handle the I/O, Low Latency monitoring, and possibly part of the mixing (I'm still unclear about this).

Pretty sure the mixing is done by the host, not by the Native card. The Native card is just a PCIe soundcard with a breakout box (in the form of one of the HD interfaces)... Which is why I cannot understand the price...

In response to people wanting benchmarks, surely the system will be just as capable as say a machine running Pro Tools LE with CPTK...? So maybe it'd make sense to ask someone in the LE forum. Just a thought. Obviously the comparison is not 100% bombproof but it should give you a good idea.

[lydpik]

But the mix buss in HD native sounds the same as PT HD right?

Not like LE i hope???

[CME]

Originally Posted by oreo1

.......I'm still using a G5, (with 6 gb of memory) .......

Which G5 do you have? I had a last generation 2.0 ghz dual-core G5 and my current macbook pro is right on par with it performance wise. And at this point PPC macs are no longer supported, so the software version you have now is probably as stable as it will ever be on that computer. However PTLE on my Intel Mac has been very stable. And I know the new Mac Pros will run circles around my Mac Book. So as long as you don't need any more I/O and are happy with your plugs, you might be surprised what "just" a computer upgrade will get you. And if you do get a new mac pro and down the road decide you need more I/O,better converters, ADC, ect, you could then look into what ever there is in the HD line. Just my .02.

[hiltonius]

the lack of HEAT support in the native world could be the deal-breaker that keeps my HD3 Accel system in our studio. i hadn't considered that before.... and yes, we DO like it a lot.

[pezking]

Originally Posted by lydpik

But the mix buss in HD native sounds the same as PT HD right?

Not like LE i hope???

It's 64 bit floating point in HD Native.

It's 32 bit floating point in LE.

Finally it's 48 bit fixed point in HD Original.

So it sure as heck isn't the same mixing bus as LE, nor HD Original. It's going to have better resolution than LE but no idea if it will sound as good/better than the original HD, or indeed if it sounds better than LE.

I don't expect an answer to that will be particularly forthcoming to be honest.

[hiltonius]

Originally Posted by oreo1

I'm a long time LE user. i don't know exactly what HD does, because I've never experienced it. Where I live, in semi-rural Pacific Northwest there are probably 6 other Protool studios. What most of you guys would call Project studios.

Out of the 6, all 6 use LE. About half use 002 or 003 and half use the M-Box. Everybody I know rarely records no more than 2 tracks at a time. In the biggest session I've seen in the past 2 years, a composer created about 25 tracks, but then stopped because his system started working like glue, so he bounced and bounced to get back to 8 tracks. When anyone here needs help, I'm usually the guy they call. But I can hardly follow this thread, because i don't know what half the abbreviations stand for.

That's all for background, and to add a different voice to this thread. Plus the fact, that so many of you guys are saying that this is being promoted as an upgrade for LE users. i don't think so. $5k or $6k for a system puts it beyond my own reach even though i would absolutely love a few of its features. But that includes few of the features that seem to be getting all the attention here.

I don't know anyone who needs access to so many tracks. I've never used more that 20. As far as sample rate goes, the local guys studying whale and bat vocals occasionally record at 192 sample rate. But 48 works just fine for everybody else. I've produced 5 CDs in the past four years, all done at 48.

I don't care at all about some "better" version of plugins. I'm quite happy using Ozone4 and TLSpaces, NI Reaktor, and Strike. Whether its because my ears are simply not as refined as so many of the rest of you, or whether you simply care more about mega-fidelity, my own market is producing for CDs and mp3 media. If i was doing big budget film, I'd probably care more, and also be able to afford it more easily.

Where I live, project studio folks primarily yearn for a Protools LE system that is simply stable. I'm still using a G5, (with 6 gb of memory) and i often wish i hadn't succumbed to upgrading to Protools 8, because it is simply not very stable on my mac. Most of the other people i know have similar stories. Some go back to using 7.6. I stick with 8, against my own better judgement, and even though 7.6 is stable on my G5, because i love the feature set, although 8 is the only software on my computer that regularly crashes. Probably this winter i'll get a new Intel mac desktop, and also give a long hard look to how to continue my semi-pro recording interests. I definitely won't spend $1500 on a Digi003, when it seems such a slight improvement from my 7 year old Digi002. Logic and Apogee are on the table. This explains why I just looked so hard at the new HD system.

I mostly yearn for an improved version of Protools 8 and hardware that doesn't slow down doing normal everyday stuff. My own Protools crashes about once a week, mostly because i either try to do too many things at once without giving the system a moment to catch up, or because I'm overloading on too many hungry plugins. So the VERY biggest draw for me, while reading about the new HD native system, is that so much of actual computing is done on the card. I want it. I want it.

I also care for better DA/AD converters. So there's two reasons for me to look hard at the HD system.

I'd buy the HD native system if it cost $2500 with the interface. No question about it. I'd probably buy it at the same time i buy the mac desktop. As it is, it cost way more than that. From my own LE vantage, the BIG selling feature — like zillions of available tracks — is nothing that interests me, only because I'll never use those features. And even if it was $2500, I would only buy it if it let's me use all my RTAS plugins. If it doesn't, it's still a deal breaker.

Hope this adds something to the discussion.

i recently received an outside session that i had to work on that has 165 voices playing upon arrival. after some clean-up, i was able to reduce that by about 20%, but this should address the question of why people need to use more than 20.

[oreo1]

Thanks for the replies, guys. I have to say, that I came to this thread after reading Avid's own advertising promo for HD-Native. That promo really did lead me to believe that much of the processing would be done on the card. If that's not the case, then they need to know that the advertising is misleading. I may be no expert in all the possible features of all the possible Protools system, but I know enough to be able to usually draw valid conclusions from a software/hardware sales pitches. What I had read into it, as HD-Native's main draw, at least for myself, isn't even covered from what you all say.

And i also get the sense that no one responding to this thread actually knows for sure how HD_native handles computing tasks. I wish we could engage the Digi guy monitoring this thread, to spell it all out in simple language. For LE users who don't care about a zillion tracks, or HD plugins is it mostly that you get better converters? Seriously.

Right now, I do have LE8 on my MacBook, with one of those little Digi interfaces that let's me edit on the road, but not record. And yes, It is 100% stable.

And yes, when i do upgrade my mac to a new 8 or 16 processor desktop, I'll certainly try it first with LE8, running through my Digi002. But I'd still be interested in a replacement for the 002, which is the other reason i was drawn to HD-Native. That should also be inferred to mean that I don't view the 003 as a valid upgrade for the 002. I guess what I'm really going to have to wait for is 004. Hopefully, they won't up the price on that as well, to over $2k, which is only going to force me to reconsider my long term relationship with Digi.

165 voices? Besides telling us that you have the biggest baseball collection on the block, I can't believe a session like that is actually an efficient way to create musical media.