Plug-ins causing timing issues on just certain tracks??

[jasonthurley]

Pro Tools 8.0.3
Windows XP Pro
3G RAM
Dual 2.4Ghz processors
DV Toolkit
Waves Broadcast Bundle
Etc...

Working on Post Audio for television and the last project(OMF and Quick Time from Final Cut Pro) I worked on seemed to have sync issues on only specific tracks..... I had a live interview on 2 mono tracks and historical clips on the next 2 tracks then I had 2 tracks for music and 2 tracks for the intro/outro.

I have inserted Waves compressor and EQ on the interview portion

Compressor on the clips

Nothing on the music

Waves Reverb on the Intro/Outro

I went through everything and got a decent mix going... Exported audio and when imported to Final Cut Pro it was in sync at the intro.... The Interview was 5 frames out of sync and the clips were 2 frames out of sync....

I imported the guide track and "Visually" lined up the wave forms on the guide track and the Pro Tools tracks and it was out of sync... I had to nudge the tracks forward in time (about 5 frames for the interview and 2 for the clips) to get them to "sound" inline with one another... visually the wave forms are not even close to lining up.

I imported the original OMF with no processing and compared it to the "Processed" Pro Tools tracks and the same thing... Visually line up but out of sync.

So what is going on?? I would assume the latency for processing would be an overall latency and all tracks would have that specific latency, not just the ones with plug-ins installed and then the ones with more plug-ins installed would have more latency then the others.....

Is there a system setting I have overlooked?? I have used Pro Tools for many years and have never had this issue...

[FordVan]

You using ProTool LE or HD?

LE doesn't have delay compensation, and putting plugins on some tracks while not on others will cause a shift in the time line. Some just do as you do and move the audio tracks forwards/backwards in anticipation of this.

If you are getting this in HD, I can see that happening too with certain Waves plugins. Not sure what that is all about, but couldn't use the Waves MB or C4 on a vocal track without it being late even in HD. Sucked hard considering how expensive all that stuff is!!!

For what ALL versions of ProTools cost, you should NEVER have a problem like this. But, there you go. You are now going to be given all sorts of "workarounds" that USERS had to come up with to deal with this huge flaw in ProTools software.

Waiting for the first ProToollama to come along and bash me for bashing their beloved software.....LOL

[MikeLip]

I concur.
For LE it is normal and you can move tracks or add delay plug to the tracks which aren't delayed. Amount of delay is (usually) shown by ctrl clicking on the Vol on the track twice. Mellowmuse TA is the automated solution.
For HD I believe there is a current ADC bug which you may be experiencing. If you have HD, go check out the HD forums.
Mike.

[jasonthurley]

Uh.... well that really does blow. I hope Digidesign... oh, excuse me... Avid finds a way to do an OVERALL latency fix for this. As I pray to the sound God!

It is a simple setup... ALL major digital consoles use this technology to have all channels with onboard processing and FX... Like Yamaha, Soundcraft, SSL, Neve, Digico, etc.. they all have an overall delay to allow for full processing.... I don;t know why this is such a nightmare but my projects have been fixed, edited, mastered and are airing on cable TV as I type.....

Please fix this problem .. Digi... oh... Avid. I can see why a lot of people I know have been switching to other DAW software such as Sonar...

[jasonthurley]

Also... I am using LE

[FordVan]

You might consider Reaper too.

[albee1952]

Or check the latency on each track(by Ctrl-clicking in the little window that normally shows the fader setting) and nudging the audio earlier by that many samples, OR use plugins that don't have latency. I don't know which EQ you used, but many(including the DigiRack EQ III) have zero latency. As for reverbs, I would not insert it, but would place the reverb plugin on an AUX track and send to it from the audio track(and run the reverb at 100% wet). That would keep all your audio in line(in theory anyway)

[TOM@METRO]

Albee is spot on about the reverb. Always use an aux track for this to eliminate the question of latency being added to the fundamental signal.

And we are all hoping Avid fixes these timing errors soon.

[jasonthurley]

I understand the reverb latency as it is a huge amount of data to process... I am very familiar with routing techniques (I do have a college degree in audio engineering and have 10 years prof. experience since)... regardless of assigning it to an aux the reverb is still going to be delayed if it is causing sync problems on inserts... so it doesn't fix the problem unless you like the delayed verb sound.. regardless 2-5 frames is a lot of delay when you consider sample size... like up to 20ms.

Why would I use Reaper for Audio post that is sync'd to video? As far as I know it doesn't support video files..... or does it?

I am using mostly Waves plug-ins... The EQ I used was also inline with a compressor (Compressor/Limiter 3 and LinEQ Broadband)

[JMS40]

Originally Posted by jasonthurley

Why would I use Reaper for Audio post that is sync'd to video? As far as I know it doesn't support video files..... or does it?

Yes... it supports .AVI, .MPG and .WMV files.