Pro Tools FAQ is now updated for PT12, etc.

[nigelpry]

So ...

New licensing arrangements are still as clear as mud,

More and more people are gradually waking up to Avid's plans and not liking them,

The very same fanboys from the 'new licensing thread' (which will now die off ... good news for Avid ... because people are writing here instead) are busy trying to put out the fire ...

and, for the first time, I'm able to rise serenely above the 'back and forth' sparring, having already decided I won't be signing up to any support plan.

I don't care what's in PT12, I won't be going there. PT11 has been a waste of money for me so far, and if PT12 is around the corner then what confidence can we have that Avid will finish off fixing PT11.

I'll use PT10, PT11 occasionally, and PT8 for live recording work, until I can no longer find a computer to run them on. And then, I'll let it slip into a memory of a DAW I was once very fond of, unfortunately owned by a company who, at every turn, seemed to care nothing for its customers, but just sought to extract as much money as it possibly could from a product that originally could command such fees beause of its uniqueness, but which has failed to keep up with the competition.

[lexaudio]

Still want to see the EULA. I'm sure there are some who have gotten it on the "free" side.

Since it is currently offered, but no EULA available, that is a problem. I think there is a legal issue there as well.

Because you are basically "leasing" a license, however they want to sugar coat it, they have to provide the complete and full contract prior to purchase.

They cannot offer the EULA on purchase only, and its not avaiable on the webiste. if it is, they don't make it easy to find.
Which creates another problem.

There is no agreement to read before you purchase. You only get the option "after" you purchase which basically means you are forces to agree to the terms before you read them. Oh, my attorney is going to have a field day.

The rebuttle. You buy the software at GC, you bring it home. You read the EULA. You decline. You cannot return the software.
But you didn't get to read the EULA before you bought it! So you bought it, can't read the terms until you install it, and if you decline the terms, you can't return it.

Yeah. See how your getting screwed. Kind of shocked no one saw this. However. Neither did I until they pulled this.

LEX

[nigelpry]

Originally Posted by lexaudio

Kind of shocked no one saw this. However. Neither did I until they pulled this.LEX

Did you read through the new licensing thread that started when Avid's plans were first announced back in last October? If you had, you wouldn't be shocked, because plenty of us saw this and it was extensively commented on.

This is the problem when new threads are started that end up covering the same ground. People often aren't aware of what has already been said in another thread. Still, that's no problem, it's good to keep the commentary bubbling along.

[Righty27]

Originally Posted by nigelpry

I don't care what's in PT12, I won't be going there. PT11 has been a waste of money for me so far, and if PT12 is around the corner then what confidence can we have that Avid will finish off fixing PT11.

To be fair, I guess the 64-bit rewrite has resulted in tidier code, allowing bug fixes to be easily implemented in various versions e.g. PT11 and PT12 - the information just posted by Bruce (new to me), suggests that Avid will follow through with this ... at least during 2015. There had previously been speculation about their ability to do so.

I suggested earlier that the lapsed plan pricing issue was the number one problem with all of this. If Avid were to promise to fix all of the bugs (not just those which they get to during a defined time period), I guess this would partly address the number two issue i.e. getting a stable version of the Pro Tools perpetual licence you pay for? 'Flat out' peace of mind would only be achieved in this respect if they promised to deliver current OS compatibility too e.g. for 5 years ... and we're not going to see that!

So, I maintain that the key issue putting me off the whole thing is having to purchase a new licence/support plan if one lets it lapse - as a 'vanilla' user, apparently for the equivalent (current $899) cost of:

* 1 x Logic Pro X 10.1 @ $199 + 1 x Arturia Audiofuse @ $599 (RRPs) + at least 5 month subscription for all the Slate plugins @ $19.99/month ... it's contagious :)

* 1 x Steinberg Cubase 8 Artist @ $399 ($299 street) + CC121 controller @ $549 ($430) + 8/9 months of Slate plugin subscription goodness :)

... for a music/hobbyist who thought he had already purchased (albeit, a licence to use) PT11, looks poor value, no? Those users who leave aren't coming back unless Avid change their tune ... even 'special upgrade offers' for lapsed licence holders won't always be trusted if future costs can't be predicted with some degree of certainty. And what's to say that Avid don't change pricing/terms again if all of this fails to meet their financial expectations e.g. support plans increase by 200%?

(OT side note re. Slate - first the rack, now plugin subs ... I guess this is what their customers want too?!)

[Righty27]

Originally Posted by nigelpry

Did you read through the new licensing thread that started when Avid's plans were first announced back in last October? If you had, you wouldn't be shocked, because plenty of us saw this and it was extensively commented on.

This is the problem when new threads are started that end up covering the same ground. People often aren't aware of what has already been said in another thread. Still, that's no problem, it's good to keep the commentary bubbling along.

For reference (currently 243 pages of 10 posts!) - see http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=359466

... and although just started, the latest Pro Tools Expert poll suggests that Avid will be losing around 60% of current users i.e. only 40% will continue to hand over PT$. Evidently not an accurate indication of users' intentions but not overwhelmingly positive either, that's for sure!

[Nish]

Originally Posted by dr_daw

This is all so confusing! So if I purchased an upgrade before Dec 31, 2014 that was just buying into the support plan? So when that expires my PT's 11 will no longer work? This part is still a little unclear to me.

I thought if you didn't renew, you were just locked in at whatever your last update was?

If that is not the case, I sure am glad I have a second Pt 10 license that I haven't upgraded! So confused!

Smart move, I did the similar... upgraded an old PT LE license and kept the PT10 license on my old I-lock instead of surrendering it for the shared PT10/11 license, securing the future...

For some reason I find myself using PT10 more than 11 at the moment, and wonder what the point will be to download PT12 as it looks like the only new thing is the cloud feature. Or did I miss something, some crazy awesome useful feature?

Btw, in the new FAQ: "Over 60 virtual instruments (thousands of sounds), effects, sound processing, and utility plug-ins"

60 virtual instruments seriously? or is this just marketing, meaning 60 including the stock fx & processing?

[KV626]

PT HD is now available to anyone? Am I reading this right?

[NoctemAUdio]

Originally Posted by Morph

PT HD is now available to anyone? Am I reading this right?

Where do you get that from?

[Bill Denton]

Originally Posted by lexaudio

You didn't read what was written.
http://avid.force.com/pkb/articles/e...icensing-FAQ#7

1) after spending 7-20k, and I have a license that expires after 12 months if I don't renew

"You have until December 31, 2015 to get on a plan to upgrade your perpetual license and stay current for the next 12 months; otherwise, you will no longer be able to upgrade your software"

And

"Q: If I have a Pro Tools perpetual license and my upgrade and support plan expires, what are my options if I want to upgrade later on?
A: You will have two options to get access to the latest version of Pro Tools:
Subscribe to Pro Tools software on a monthly or annual basis
Purchase a new Pro Tools perpetual license (full product) that includes an annual upgrade and support plan"

So, after the basic 7k, your license is good for 12 months. After that, if you haven't renewed your "extortion plan", you can no longer get upgrades unless you repurchase the software.

Why is it worth NOTHING? Let's see here.

"Why do I need a support plan? I rarely need tech support now.
A: This plan also provides 12 months of Pro Tools updates and upgrades, so you always have the latest features."

What they fail to mention in this "statement" is, or how they cleverly worded it. "have the latest features". But what they stated "cleverly" was UPDATES. So as soon as your 12 months is up, so are your bug updates.

Let's explore this further

"While we've released no-cost updates to fix technical issues between major releases, "upgrades"—releases that provide new tools and functionality—have always been provided for a fee. With this new model, we can provide new features on a more frequent basis. The new upgrade and support plans give you access to every new feature as soon as it's available, and you get peace of mind knowing that technical support is always available to you."

Again, clever wording. And while there is still apparently "more policy to be announced", the user base is large enough for a class action.
Happened to MOTU. They lost.

In the clever "wording" they are confusing you with "upgrades" meaning, something new, advanced and what wasn't in the software prior and "updates" which typically fix bugs and software problems because of their coding errors.

Which as stated here:
"If you choose not to renew, you can continue using your software indefinitely at the latest version you have, but will not be able to upgrade it at a later time."
Means that should there be an update rather than an upgrade, update meaning fixing programming errors for features "already paid for" would not be available to the end user.

Again, based on how they are wording this and presenting this, I think they are in for a large class action.

I'm having an attorney friend of mine look over the wording of this as it is sketchy to say the least. Granted, as stated "policies will be announced in 2015", but from the looks of it they haven't thought this out well.

Hopefully AVID will be smarter than whoever wrote the current FAQ, and fire who wrote it.
Of course the EULA will be needed.

Please send me a copy of those who have already signed up.


LEX

You purchased a perpetual license to use a specific version of Pro Tools.

A download of the software was made available to you.

Avid has taken no steps to prevent you from using that license.

And you're planning to sue them on what grounds? Keep in mind that "being pissed off" is not sufficient grounds for even filing a lawsuit, much less for prevailing at trial.

Do yourself a favor...spend your time chasing clients instead of worry about some lawsuit that ain't gonna happen!

People who know a lot more about law than either you or I know have made sure that a lawsuit will not succeed.

Like it or not, that's just how it is...

[KV626]

Originally Posted by NoctemAUdio

Where do you get that from?

The comparison table:

"can be used with or without hardware"
...
"Any analog or digital surface that supports the HUI protocol"


https://www.avid.com/US/products/pro...mparison-table