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Go Back   Avid Pro Audio Community > Other Products > Pro Tools Express on Windows

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  #1  
Old 03-27-2012, 06:47 AM
jimst57 jimst57 is offline
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Thumbs down Why Not Available to MBox3 Owners?

As an early purchaser of an MBox3, I feel that it's wrong to not allow me to download Pro Tools Express.

It seems to me that if this is now included in the purchase of an MBox3, then ANY registered owner of an MBox3 should be able to download it.

So it's a disadvantage to me if I was an early purchaser? I would think that should be something that Avid would reward a user for. My MBox3 is worth less if I sell it because it doesn't come with a version of Pro Tools? Yet if someone buys today they get it for free.

I bought Pro Tools 10, so I don't Need Pro Tools Express, but I don't see what the harm would be to allow registered users to download it as a plus for their MBox3 value.

Will the day EVER come when this company does anything that would be perceived as customer appreciation?
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  #2  
Old 03-28-2012, 01:32 AM
hooksound hooksound is offline
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Default Re: Why Not Available to MBox3 Owners?

jimst57, you are in the same situation as upgraders, who misses a grace period/window. Your question is: What would it cost to offer a free download of Pro Tools Express to existing MBox3 customers? avids business case is: A new user wants to buy an Mbox3. He can choose between yours (second hand) and a new one. He then decides to buy the new one (Pro Tools express included, warranty etc.). I myself would do so, unless the price difference is really big. So, avid wins on short terms. Therefore, they don't offer a free download (moving value backwards to the existing user). Believe me, they have calculated the risk of losing you as a customer (or at least they should have). That's why it's often a love/hate relationship, because they do nothing on their own to compensate anyone. Another example: avid discontinues the DV Toolkit to Complete Production Toolkit upgrade. Users asks avid to continue the product, because they have spend a lot of money on the DV Toolkit, which is now worthless. avid sees the opportunity and reintroduces the upgrade, this time at a higher price, and market the initiative as a sensation and a "we listen to you" act.

There's only one rule: If you enter the avid boat, you will have to pay extra for a life jacket. There are no freebies, not even on support and the level of investment protection is low. If you can't live by this rule, please take my hand and we'll leave the boat together.
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  #3  
Old 03-29-2012, 02:19 PM
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Post Re: Why Not Available to MBox3 Owners?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimst57 View Post
As an early purchaser of an MBox3, I feel that it's wrong to not allow me to download Pro Tools Express.
Pro Tools Express is a new version of Pro Tools. It is only being bundled with new Mbox (3rd gen) and Mbox Mini (3rd gen) systems obviously as a way to encourage more people to buy these products. It’s not that different from how [warning: car analogy approaching] someone buying the current model of my car now gets Bluetooth included (and I don’t expect them to give me Bluetooth now). Part of a product’s evolution is to add new features or other items along the way. This is one way to keep the product competitive.

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Originally Posted by jimst57 View Post
So it's a disadvantage to me if I was an early purchaser?
No (putting aside the fact that multiple versions of Pro Tools were included with your Mbox - see below), you have actually had the advantage of using the product longer than if you had waited. With products that continually evolve (especially in technology) you can either wait forever, or you can decide to jump in and enjoy the use of the product. We all get to decide for ourselves where that point is.

Sorry that you feel we have never done anything to show we appreciate your business, because we do. People like you that buy our products put food on the table and a roof over our heads (and more), and we all really appreciate that.

As far as what we have done to show it, looking back at some of your registration history shows:
- You bought an Mbox 2 Mini (with Pro Tools LE 7.3) in 2009 and we gave you 7.4 and 8.0 for free.
- You crossgraded from LE to PT9 at a discount.
- You later did a Teacher upgrade from PT9 to PT10, and this also should have been at a discount.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimst57 View Post
My MBox3 is worth less if I sell it because it doesn't come with a version of Pro Tools? Yet if someone buys today they get it for free.
The registration for your Mbox (3rd gen) lists LE 8, so Pro Tools was actually included with your interface. So if you do decide to sell your Mbox you could include the version that came with it, or any of the subsequent upgrades we've given you or that you have purchased.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hooksound View Post
they do nothing on their own to compensate anyone.
True, other than the free v7.4 upgrade, the free v8.0 upgrade, the discounted 9 crossgrade, and the discounted 10 upgrade (not to mention the 7.3 version that was included with the Mbox).
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  #4  
Old 03-31-2012, 07:40 AM
derFunkenstein derFunkenstein is offline
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Default Re: Why Not Available to MBox3 Owners?

Not to mention how much you're giving up in content, features, and track count compared to PT 8 LE that came with the Mbox family originally. There's no way I'd want to go from 8 to Express - you gain ADC and AAX compatibility but you lose like 30-something audio tracks, tons of instrument tracks, busses, and so on. This is a huge step up over PT SE that comes with some M-Audio interfaces, but it's still not something I'd be using if I was used to something more advanced (which, btw, I am personally... )

And if you don't have an iLok, you need one as PT Express system requirements requires a USB port for one, which should be included with new Mbox purchases.
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  #5  
Old 04-01-2012, 10:54 AM
hooksound hooksound is offline
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Default Re: Why Not Available to MBox3 Owners?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hooksound:
they do nothing on their own to compensate anyone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avid View Post
True, other than the free v7.4 upgrade, the free v8.0 upgrade, the discounted 9 crossgrade, and the discounted 10 upgrade (not to mention the 7.3 version that was included with the Mbox).
Some of these things happened back in the good old Digidesign days. After avid took over, we have witnessed more frequently updates at higher prices. LE and recently M-Powered has been discontinued. If these users wishes to stay with Pro Tools, the only way is to hand out $499 for the crossgrade. Discounted yes, but this could seriously damage a hobbyist budget.

The last remark regarding the bundled "free" software is rather sought. When the day is over, it's part of the total retail price.

Let me define what I see as a freebie: Steinberg has a tradition of releasing x.5 versions of Cubase. They add a couple of extra features and maybe a couple of plug-ins. Except for a small fee for 6.5, these has been for free. This is a healthy approach towards the customer.

Despite being an M-Powered user, I fully understand that avid discontinues this line (and LE for that sake). These products has no future, because avid can not allow any more features to ripple down from the higher versions.

Having both SE and Express at the same time also puzzles me (apart from keeping avid and M-Audio products separated). They are no alternative to MP/LE users and the price gap towards Pro Tools is not for the typically entry level user. For the price of two avid support tickets, he can get Reaper.

But I'm no marketing expert. I can only express my feelings and I feel that I'm gliding away from Pro Tools.
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  #6  
Old 04-02-2012, 01:17 AM
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ejwells ejwells is offline
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Default Re: Why Not Available to MBox3 Owners?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hooksound View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by hooksound:
they do nothing on their own to compensate anyone.


Some of these things happened back in the good old Digidesign days. After avid took over, we have witnessed more frequently updates at higher prices.
Avid bought Digidesign in 1994
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  #7  
Old 04-02-2012, 10:52 AM
hooksound hooksound is offline
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Default Re: Why Not Available to MBox3 Owners?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ejwells View Post
Avid bought Digidesign in 1994
Yes they did. Digidesign then ran as a fairly independent brand. Reality was that Pro Tools LE and later M-Powered lived in the shadows of HD and they were kept underfeatured for too many years and now they are both dead. Avid retired the “Digidesign” moniker two years ago, and since then things seemed to change rapidly.

avid owns the greatest recording system brand in the world. It is called Pro Tools HD/HDX. Pro Tools SE and Express are virtually worthless demo/sketch tools and provide no value to the serious hobbyist, who needs to record more than a singer/songwriter or duo. That's a pity.
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