[Infiltrator]

Originally Posted by Benoni

Oh mighty Dionysus I thank you every day for bestowing upon is the prophet Infiltrator. For through your knowledge transferred unto the prophet we now know that there is only ONE path for everything. There is only ONE way to affect the air to swirl and move in order for our primitive brains to interpret the sound as "good" or like an Arrendondo-modded marshall.

Thanks. Maybe your deity will perhaps reveal that to get the sound of An arrendondo-modded marshall, you either get him to mod you an amp to sound like one, (which is now impossible since Jose A. is dead), or 2) you get a person to mod the internals of an amp or build a new amp according to the same arredondo schematics, or 3) you buy a simulator such as the Axe FX or Axe FX 2 that has algorithms programmed to sound that way based on the exact modeling of the values in those schematics. Above none of which you have ever suggested in that suggestion. But somehow you wish to believe post processing, or EQs will give those results.

For what has science taught us oh mighty Dionysus about the transmission of sound or the process of the ears and brain that allow us to make judgments on the displacement and vibrations in the air. Nothing! We now know that the prophet(Infiltrator) has destroyed the belief of the commoners of - several ways to an end. Or more colloquially "There is more than one way to skin a cat" verily I say Nay NAY! For the prophet has asserted that there is in fact only ONE way to skin said cat.

However oh mighty Dionysus and your father Zeus, I am concerned about the prophet and his acceptance of the Digital Devils. If there is in fact only one way to an end, as the prophet has asserted, then would not the only way to get the sound of an Arrendondo-modded marshall, in fact be to own an actual Arrendondo-modded marshall? Oh mighty Dionysus how will these evil Ones and Zeros accurately reproduce the sound of an analog signal? How can you model wood and metal and plastic in ones and zeros? For these materials will affect the end result of a sound simply by the fact that they exist in the same space as the circuitry.

Oh Zeus, oh Dionysus I am not questioning your authority, nor your sending of the prophet Infiltrator. But if the gods have given me the faculties of reason, am I not to use them? Are the gods testing my resolution? Or were the gods (pre-conceived notions of belief without evidence) my own creation, have I unknowingly cast out reason for far to long? Is this road a judgment upon me, or have I finally become free?

To your pharoahs, fairies, and leprechauns that you appeal who have appeared to you to make you believe that you can polish a turd, or that you can somehow make the sound of one instrument sound like a totally different instrument altogether in such uncanny ways with the use of an EQ - i say - WOW. LOL. That to me is definitely indicative that you gotta lay off the green stuff or you'll continue to get your advice from the green man, or whatever other goblins you seem to appeal to.

EQs after the fact are used to boost or cut WHAT IS ALREADY THERE - they do NOT introduce new sonic content. You are under a severe misconception about what EQs actually do. however - filters in between an amplifiers tube gain stages however can alter timbral characteristics in the way I described because of tube physics and chemistry and tube reaction to differently filtered signals - not in the way you describe EQs - except for your newly discovered knowledge that an EQ before an amps input causes the amp to sounds different than EQ-ing in any possible way after its gain. (Congratulations... you just learned how to filter out the distortion of certain frequencies of a signal) now you have more possible stages to learn about - including those INSIDE the amplifiers internals (you know - those big things? Thats why there are millions of different amps that sound very unique in their own way - it is precisely these values which do matter. And something you are evidently in no position to comment on since it appears you have no such experience in the matter. )

Yes something possible to some small degree in Guitar Rig with the advanced parameters drop down - but its still very basic... - but that (along with many other amp modelers) only model one gain stage and is therefore just not realistic at all in the way it does and are very limited. So I dont care if the guy from Def Leppard uses it or says he uses it - these are the facts regardless who uses it or says they use it.

As for eleven, easily more realistic than guitar rig but no flexibility to edit the sound characteristics in the ways i described.

ANYWAY,

Infiltrator, more and more you remind me of Die Leiden des jungen Werthers (The Sorrows of Young Werther) though your obsession is not another person but the meaningless idea of Honor, so perhaps Hamlet or Ajax would be a better fit.

Sorry i am not familiar with your tales of mother goose and grim.

Likely just more red-herring attempts either way.

Yes, how on earth could an EQ be a gain stage

In the novel you wrote, your futile attempts to use soliloquy to try to manipulate my stance as to somehow meaning something which it did not mean - to no demonstrated end - has now led you to insert words in my mouth which i did not even utter. Exactly, how on earth could it be one? And where did I even say that? LOL. But unfortunately for you - your prior belief was precisely based on such nonsensical quackery as per past discussions.

But what you also fail miserably to grasp is that filters (and hence EQs) BETWEEN gain stages inside amplifiers - have a much different affect on the sound of the gain than an EQ placed before the gain stage, and far different than an EQ used whey after the fact in post. This is why i have deflated your attempts to believe eleven rack can achieve the same sound of an arrendondo style mods to amps which is simulated in the AXE FX and Axe FX 2 - which allow the alteration of those kinds of filters in BETWEEN the gain stages - something you cannot do in Eleven - or in Guitar Rig. But at least in Guitar Rig you can adjust Sag, Bias, Variac, etc... but unfortunately it sounds crappy and like one stage. In Eleven it sounds better but you can't edit it. Solution is a different box - if you are looking for those kinds of tonal differences.

This is why the rest of your reasoning is misguided and wholly amateur - right here below as quoted.

What if the output gain of the EQ was raised.... thereby increasing the GAIN in that stage which will then slam into the amp at a higher GAIN then it would normally, thereby effecting the sound of the amp... but I guess we cant count that.

Basic powertube saturation. So that to you is advanced parameter editing? Why am i not even surprised.

(No flexible editing to power tube behavior in Eleven Rack. And to any Eleven users, did they even add a powertube bias control yet? )

What about a distortion box in front of the amp.... would that effect the sound of the gain (the answer is yes by the way)

Wow! Thanks for the informative advice! Keep daisy chaining that Metal Zone pedal! You can now progress to the level of Spinal Tap.

Here is another one thats quite a piece of treasure - up for grabs within this laughable exhibit of yours:

What about a compressor before the amp, or even after the amp, each place will effect gain. Why do you think some players place a compressor before an overdrive box (the compressor can make an overdrive more like a distortion effect, and with adjustments of each you can make a sort of 'custom' distortion effect, combine that with the compression, gain, of an amp and you carve out tones that were not possible before)

Absolutely beautiful! All missing the point that there are different ways to adjust dynamic response within the values of the actual circuitry within the amp to drastically alter the dynamic response of the sound much differently than one can with either a compressor before or after the amp - contrary to what you believe. This is why some amps sound tight and focused as hell without even the use of a compressor... whereas some sound very loose and not accurate at all, even if later run through an SSL 4k series in post - which unfortunately for you cannot polish your turds. So just go back to that metal zone to learn about basic tone shaping - just stick to solid state for now. Maybe one day tubes... that is if you maybe let got of all the bigotry that plagues your beliefs.

And if the flexibility is provided in the simulation then it is an added advantage to tonal editing - which in many modelers including eleven is non existent - and this is why i have once again bombarded the platform upon which your entire faulty premise rests - to the point where you can no longer stand straight, or much less stand at all.

You are living in a world of mysticism, there is nothing magical about a Arrendondo-modded marshall, Axe FX or Eleven Rack. What you have in each is possibilities. The possibilities are in direct correlation with the available tools in each unit. (The above bold text is important to remember. Refer back to it when Infiltrator starts saying that I am saying that you can make a Herbert on channel 3 sound like a piano, or what ever inane 'example' he comes up with.)

Thanks, but at least i don't get my knowledge from gods popular in the stone age which you somewhat appeal to for your scientific data on electric guitar amp tone. Apparently you have no clue about the changes to an amps sound possible only when the internal editing between gain staging is there in addition to the power tube behavior editing. You have displayed a total lack of understanding about the way electric guitar tone can be changed in different ways. Please refer to amptone.com to start to educate yourself on the matter.

Honor needs no defending as it does not exist except in the mind of fools. Facts, however, do matter to me. And while I know my opposition will quote mine and re-frame my arguments to suit their belief of "what they 'thought' i said" the post is very clear for all to refer to and make up their own minds.

Thanks but you have just clarified a classic for everyone. Congratulations you have very elegantly defeated yourself in style and have made my job very easy here. You are the ultimate definition of a total bigot who will cling to some belief - no matter how much in error, and will reach for the furthest fallacy to try to prove it. You need to get some help - specifically a psychiatric assessment. Such delusions you subscribe to are just not worth pursuing.