Thanks for your response! I apologize again for these really long responses of mine... if nothing else, maybe it will help someone else on their own journey, as I have done so much research and thinking on how to make my setup work and the best way to get into Pro Tools Ultimate. (just writing this all out knowing that someone might read it has helped me organize my thoughts too - so thanks again for reading) [Oh, I just realized - the moderators never approved the 2nd through 6th parts of my original message - doh! So you didn't have all my extra info to go off of. sorry about that - it wouldn't let me post the original as I think there is a length limit per message.]
[QUOTE=musicman691;2585388]The first thing I would take into account on which version of PT to get is what computer will you be running on and do you mind having an extension box to hold HDX cards? I can only speak to the Mac world but right now there's only one Mac that will take internal HDX cards and that's a 4 to 5 figure new Cheesegrater. But will you need HDX cards? The answer to that ties into the power of your computer. Vicious circle I know.[QUOTE]
I am back on PC now - I didn't set up my signature, but it was buried in my long message - I am using an Alienware 17 R5 right now, 32 GB RAM, i9 6 core running at 4.2 ghz. I don't mind changing up to a PC desktop that I build myself, or maybe a used HP workstation that Avid recommends, if it makes the HDX cards run cooler. I did speak to Sonnet, and they are releasing a new, three card enclosure that SHOULD work with HDX this time around and on TB3, so that will be interesting to see how it pans out.
But yeah - basically, most of the time, at least in other DAWs - I have plenty of power thus far. Just want to be "sure" I never have to increase that buffer size. Plus, I've been bouncing all VI tracks before getting too heavy into mixing - which I think is a good practice overall, but, it wouldn't hurt to really also be able to mix without having to do that.
[QUOTE=musicman691;2585388]
I don't know if Avid is still selling HD Native cards or not. HD Native cards like non-HD PT depends on your computer's power.
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Right, it's the Thunderbolt Core external HD interface only nowadays. (which is overpriced, I feel - if I could nab a used one for half the new price, that might not be so bad)
[QUOTE=musicman691;2585388]
You don't need an HDX or HD Native card to run PT Ultimate. What Ultimate will get you is some really great automation things as well as other goodies like being able to use more than 32 I/O. But you should have found that out in your research.
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Well, right - but if only Avid would increase or allow "purchase" of more than 32 I/O in the native (non-HD) version! (Ultimate alone does NOT allow you to go over 32 I/O - the Avid site doesn't say this, but many forums and Pro-Tools-Expert.com posts say this, and I just confirmed someone saying this in a thread earlier this year - unless they JUST changed it recently? That would be awesome!)
Quote:
Originally Posted by musicman691
As to the Mac keyboard I agree. There's at least one company that's selling the old-style full travel keyboard in both a clicky and non-clicky variation. Check out this site: https://matias.ca/products/ Their keyboards have n-key rollover which I find is a problem in the current Mac keyboards - type to fast and you get mondo typos. Look for the Tactile Pro models. Of course there are other third party keyboards out there with full travel keys that will work on a Mac but they may not have the Mac-specific symbols. |
That's funny, I was always a stickler on n-key rollover on my PC keyboards - never thought that it could be the issue that I too get mondo typos on my Macbook Pro 16! I just assume it was me fumbling the keys due to them being so low-travel.
That said, I'll never go Mac again - the only Mac I've ever had that worked out well was my 2004 17". Then that video card burnt out in 2010, and they said I was too late for the free extended replacement (which of course, they didn't exactly e-mail all customers about, like a vehicle service recall would do). I had the tower right before that, then within a year, they discontinued Power PC! So, lost a good chunk of change selling that so soon. Put up with the slow performance of two MacBook Retinas from 2012 and 2014. Had a Macbook 12 work fine for 2 years, then the USB C/charging port literally burnt out and computer went dead. (to their credit, they did replace it uner AppleCare - BUT it took them 3-4 MONTHS to do so, because they were "waiting on parts" that never came)
Went back to PC completely, then gave Mac one more chance for this MacBook Pro 16 which I am now selling, believing all the hype that they "fixed it" - in some ways they did (bigger screen again, slightly more usable keyboard, and CPU doesn't just straight up throttle down to half speed right away) - but the CPU still doesn't get anywhere near its performance... for example, my 2018 Alienware has the 6-core CPU - the MB Pro has the top spec 8 core at the highest boost possible - yet, in Studio One anyway, the PC can still run a good chunk more simultaneous instances of a guitar amp plugin! (even with two less cores)
The other thing about Macs that is annoying - it is very difficult, or even impossible, to get a good quality "real" mouse (like any sort of gaming mouse with high DPI, and which doesn't require software "acceleration" to make it move large distances) to work as expected - one has to use SteerMouse or any other add-ons to try to remove the default acceleration curve (but then it resets, etc., and still isn't the same, and then it might mess up the touchpad response). Whereas on PC, I can set up my mouse or trackball to respond so well, that I even wonder if using more keyboard shortcuts will save any time.
Plus the whole M1 thing now - kind of surprised me they bothered introducing the 16" Macbook with the Intel and didn't just wait for the M1!
Other things I learned in my most recent Mac ownership - you can never re-install an older Mac OS version than the date your computer was made! And I believe if you don't go in and download/purchase the current OS version, and a new one comes out and gets installed, you can't roll back either (or it's harder to do).
So, I don't think I'll ever be going back to Mac - they're worse than Windows now in terms of changing things when they want with no option to customize (getting harder and harder for third party tools to mimic the original Spaces functionality, for example), and breaking things with their annual updates. At least with Windows Pro, you can completely shut off updates for half a year or more with no nagging, AND even then, force it to stay one or two major release cycles behind the current version. Someone in an Ableton thread said it best - on their Mac, they can only run Live 9 or higher - whereas on their current PC, they can still run Live 4 or even earlier, if they want! Whereas Mac is trying to be more "throw-away" by the year with both the hardware and now the OS itself.
Oh, plus the fact that they removed the internal data port on the motherboard - so even if some other part of the computer bricks, you cannot recover the data from the onboard SSD! I mean, that's just insanity. Of course one should back up frequently... but to completely block any chance of recovering data, short of desoldering the SSD chips and somehow re-assembling them? If that's "Genius"... :)
Anyway, sorry for that rant - I feel it's my "duty" to share my findings, since I've spent so much time and money on Macs in general, and given Apple so many "second chances" as it were. I do realize if I never used their laptops, and only their various desktop units, it's possible I'd never have any faults with them!
Back on topic - I wouldn't mind getting HDX, IF Avid would simply allow that to ALSO work as an HD Native card for times when I want to not have the overhead of the DSP mixer, etc. But from what I've read, to do that - you've basically got to buy both the HDX card and the Native card.
Thanks again for your thoughts though. I am leaning towards just renting the software or getting the perpetual, and not worry about the 32 input limit, and then maybe in a few months if I am sure I like the user experience - add on then. At first, I thought that was a bad idea, since the Ultimate perpetual comes bundles with new interfaces - but I don't think any of their interfaces would make sense new. For example, the MTRX not even doing the automatic recording delay compensation... and no sense in buying HDIO boxes new anymore, with the prices they go for used... although I guess it does come close, since the $300 Digilink plus the Ultimate perpetual license, even at discounted rates, plus $2,000 minimum for HDIO 16x16 used comes out to almost the same...
I guess the kid in me still things "but, but - HDX is just cool!" - like the part about the mixing happening on the card... at first, I thought, that's genius, it's like having a digital mixing board in the card, and the computer is "command and control" only - but then the reality sinks in that the computer still is recording and streaming the actual audio, and any virtual instrument still has to run on the host CPU (and RAM), and then the shuttling back and forth of the audio between DSP and host and back to get out of the converter adding latency in and of itself... kind of "dream shattered" at that point. :)
I think another reason I like the idea of HDX is that I've been recently purchasing the HDX versions of plugins that I hadn't had before, anticipating I might be getting an HDX soon... so that's probably a few hundred $ or more extra (over the native-only versions) that is making me already feel "committed" to going HDX.
All that said, I just realized another route - I had discounted it because I was only looking at new prices, but I realized the HD MADI units are much more affordable used - and that would allow me to get 64 channels (at 48 kHz) via MADI from something like the MOTU 112d - and that can aggregate digital inputs from AES, ADAT, and AVB! (or heck, even from the computer or another computer, via USB or Thunderbolt) So now I am thinking getting a used HD Native card, an Ultimate subscription or perpetual, and the HD MADI would be a good way to started.