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PCIx in PCI slots...
Hey guys!
Doing an upgrade on a PCIx based HD3 system. Time for a new comp. I'm building a hackintosh... before the flaming begins, let me state that I have built 6 hackintoshes running 10.6.5 on LE and 9 systems (including mine running 10.6.6) so lets avoid that topic, unless you have questions. My question is regarding PCIx cards in PCI slots. I have read mixed things on these forums and want to put the topic to rest. As far as I understand, putting PCIx cards into PCI slots is possible and decreases the bandwidth from 133 to 33. This is not an issue on systems that use HD3+. A very very marginal difference is seen on these systems, and well worth the upgrade to the computer and expanded use of RTAS plugins due to faster CPU and RAM. Please correct me if I'm wrong. The plan is as follows. GIGABYTE GA-H67A-UD3H-B3 LGA 1155 Intel H67 Intel Core i7-2600K (can be changed to something less hefty if mobo cant OC anyways G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 Cooler Master Silent Pro Gold 850w Western Digital Caviar Black WD1002FAEX 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 6.0Gb/s EVGA GeForce GT 240 1GB That gigabyte mobo is the only current motherboard I can find with 3 PCI slots. I will be attempting a SandyBridge Hack (no small fete), but its been done. I know skimping is a bad idea when it comes to comps, but I really want to avoid shelling out 3k for a silent Magma Chassis. So to simplify, my question is is there anyone running PCIx cards in PCI slots. What is your experience with it? Any degradation in DSP or TDM functionality? Thanks in advance guys! |
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IHTH ! |
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The HD cards were never actually PCIx, they are just PCI anyways. The confusion came from the Mix cards being PCI, but not the right voltage for the PCIx slots in the first gen G5's. |
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Sweet, thanks guys! Only problem I see now is those huge cards blocking off the SATA ports... Might need to buy those 90 degree SATA cables. In any case, If you guys have any questions about Hackintoshes, let me know. I've done many i7 1366 and 1156 builds, this will be my first sandy bridge 1155 build. I'll keep you posted if your interested.
Total cost is 1200 for a rack mounted i7 2600k with 8gigs of ram and 1TB black caviar Sata3 (6gb/s) HD. Should be a BEAST, way faster than some MacPros and at a 1/3 of the cost. Not to mention dual bootable. In all honesty, I started doing this because I was sick of the issues I was having with PT9 and windows. Up until about 6 months ago, I was a die hard PC guy (and still am) but I gotta say, the combination of customizable PC hardware and Mac OSx is a beautiful thing. PT9 and Logic 9 working flawlessly. Let me know if you guys have any questions about it. |
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"The HD cards were never actually PCIx, they are just PCI anyways. The confusion came from the Mix cards being PCI, but not the right voltage for the PCIx slots in the first gen G5's. "
I'm really struggling here. I've got a PCI card which I think is PCI-X because it looks just like the one on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI-X and so simply doesn't fit into a regular PCI slot. The whole card is about 32cm long and the pins are about 12.5 cm wide. Any ideas of what motherboards might work? |
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The PTHD PCI-X cards work in regular PCI slots. I have used them both on a PC motherboard and inside an expansion chassis attached to a Mac Pro. The problems you will run into with regular motherboards are mostly mechanical. You need to make sure there is enough room in the case and that various chipset heatsinks and other stuff won't interfere. I had to remove one of the chipset heatsinks and cut it down a bit to get it to fit, for example.
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It's a core card, but unlike most, it's got two of those connections found to the right of the digilink connection which I assume are MMC.
It's simply too big for PCI slots in that it needs more pins. http://www.fast-autos.net/diecast-cars-models/Pro-Tools-HD-1-Core-Card_300515061712.html |
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The extra connectors ( that would make the card PCIX) just hang there off the back edge of the PCI connector. They don't need to contact anything, the card will work in a PCI slot if you can get it to fit.
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Ok..
Let's put this to bed. The cards are in PCI-X format.. but you do not need the enhanced slots to use them. By design, most PCI-X cards ARE backwards compatible with PCI, as are Digidesign cards. I have a Pro Tools HD3 setup with PCI-X cards running in three PCI slots. I can say that this works and has been working for months. All you need to do is find a motherboard that is physically compatible with your cards, that is, has enough room for them. I'm also a Cisco engineer and have an expired Microsoft certification, so I know things about some stuff.. :) |
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Can someone from Avid who was around when HD PCI cards were developed comment on WHY the choice was made to put a PCI interface with PCI-x hardware?
Was the idea to utilize the PCI-x architecture at some point? Did the engineers think the extra pins on the mobo would help structurally? I have always wanted to know why this was a design choice. Larger connectors cost money (even if only pennies) and no company will put useless components on a card unless there was some purpose. I'd really like to know what the Digi engineers were thinking, just for perspective. Anyone old enough to remember this? |
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Marketing? Had they only used a standard 32bit slot there would have been a great hue and cry that they weren't effectively using the Mac capabilities fully. And of course the real biggie. If its got twice as many edge connectors than a 001 it must be least twice as good. Looks impressive. Supports the weight of a long and heavy card better. The only real reason to go to a 64bit wide bus would be if they were running out of PCI bandwidth for audio processing. And that didn't see to be happening - people were running out of on card DSP first and buying more 7000.00 cards so why change anything. |
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If I remember right, the HD cards actually came before the G5's. There was a pro tools 5 that ran on OS9 with HD cards. The first G5's were PCI-X only, and did not work with the MIX cards that HD was replacing. (Some of the later versions of the G5 actually did work with MIX cards, but were never supported)
My guess is that digi knew that apple would be dumping PCI slots with the G5's, so adding the beefy new (but completely non functional) connector was another way of obsoleting the MIX cards and getting people to upgrade. |
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thx Spacey |
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Other MB choices exist, some have three PCI slots. There's also a solution to the non-adjacent slot issue, further increasing the list of possible motherboards that you can use. Contact me directly for futher info about the non-adjacent slot issue if interested. My email address is in my resume here. |
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Hi, I'm planning on building a machine with this MoBo
It has 4 PCI slots. I'll post my findings as I start putting it together. D. |
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do you mean the extra "pins" on the pci cards?
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The cards are very long so I was thinking that the cards won't push in properly due to the heat sink that's just what I'm thinking tho I might be wrong |
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At first I was thinking of using upward pci risers. Then I got lost in the search engines again and stumbled upon this Mobo and started contemplating "sandy bridge"...
The quest continues.. |
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Re: GA-P55-UD3L, I'm using this. I did have to modify the heat sink to install the cards, not hard to do. I never considered 'risers', oh well, seems that there would be issues with the way the cards fit in the case.
The MB works fine as far as I can tell, my issues have been with Windows, coming from a Mac background. PT 9 HD3 Accel runs well. good luck |
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I was unsuccesful with Pro Tools PCI-X HD3 with GA-H67A-UD3-B3. When inserting the Core Card the computer booted/posted. When attempting to install an accel card, the computer would not post/boot. It just restarted over and over again.. I tried PCI-1 and 2 and PCI 2 and 3. Same thing. I even tried skipping PCI Slot 2 and Install core card in PCI 1 and Accel in PCI 3. No Go. I tried all 3 card and nothing. The computer would boot into OXS and Window 7 if just one card was in. Didnt matter the slot. Didn't matter if it was an accel card or the core. It would boot and Protools 9HD would install and work. When ever I tried two or more cards, the computer would not boot. Any ideass? An HD1 will not work at all! http://www.gearslutz.com/board/attac...-sata-used.jpg |
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It seems, though, from what I've gleaned from the various posts, that most are using the 'P' series motherboards. The 'H' series has the built in Intel graphics, and some of the issues seem to be related to graphics cards. Perhaps the Intel graphics are causing problems (even if not being used)? Or it could be an issue with configuration or drivers of the graphics card you are using. Do a search on the DUC and you may find some advice in that regard. Good luck. Let us know if you get it going. :cool: Ray |
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I guess I just had some extra cash and time on my hand and was hoping to lead the way for those who were interested in the 1155 socket boards and processors. Plus having the ability to run Retail Snow Leopard. I will keep hunting. |
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Well we know that the 1155 GA-H55-USB3 (Rev 1.0) works with PTHD PCI-X cards. Just don't want to keep investing money in old techology.
My current rig is plenty fast for all of my needs. I was just getting prepared to ditch PTHD and go native but wanted the biggest and baddest thing out there to do it. So I have made the decision of getting rid of my HD3 cards and getting the Native card and move on with life. Out with the old. In with the new. |
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Any successful Sandy Bridge Builds with PCI-X Pro Tools Cards?
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I would like to know the same thing.
I have HD3 on a G5 and wish to switch to Windows 7 64 bit Pro w/Sandy Bridge i7. Anybody running this successfully with HD PCI cards? Which mobo? Media Man |
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It's a sheep in wolf's clothing!! |
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Thx |
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There seems to be opinions on this forum that whether or not the PCI slots work correctly with PT HD cards depends on the chip set, but there doesn't seem to be consistency in those opinions. It would be great if someone had a better explanation of which chip set works, which one doesn't, and why. Digidesign is behind the curve as usual and only "qualifies" the out dated Xeon CPU for Windows. I understand they can't test every mobo, but come on. Some guidelines on the PCI buss limitations/recommendations would be helpful. Media Man |
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From what I have gathered the p67, h67 and z68 chipsets do not support pci natively. They do so by a pci to pci-e bridge.
I tried a build with the H67 chipset and the computer would not post at all with more than 2 PCI-X cards in it. Strange thing is the system works with just 1 core card and will boot with either the accel or process card in it. When I put all 3 in the computer just continually reboots before the post............... There are some users I am watching closely to see if the Gigabyte GA-P65A-UD3 will work. An additional PCI-e SATA card will be needed becuase the 2nd card covers up a row of SATA headers but the board looks promising. So far this is the only board that appears will work but is not available in the US. WTF? |
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http://semiaccurate.com/2010/08/19/i...e-pci-support/ Media Man |
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Protools HD2 in here btw. Yeah, I already know the thing about the chipsets (B65 and Q67)...just waiting for someone using a B65 or Q67 motherboard with HD cards and his opinion. |
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I can easily get that mobo here in Spain, so...just finishing some post projects on my dualcore and waiting for someone saying "yes, the mobo works flawlessly with the hd cards"... |
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