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-   -   5.1 file channel order (http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=404932)

lastbeethoven 05-27-2019 07:42 PM

5.1 file channel order
 
I use DTS order in my hardware system. It works fine when watching Video (DVD in VLC player APP ) and other 5.1 audio file.
in PT, I set output IO to DTS order too, and it is OK in working inside PT. But after the session has been bounced out, the channel order chaos: it is still in PT default order which is L C R Ls Rs LFE. import this bounced file into Adobe Audition, found that the channel label is another order, which is L R C LFE Ls Rs , and it is the same as it is opened in Quicktime. And it sounds chaotic in sound fields .

So, is it possible to do some PT software setting to fit the DTS hardware channel order, no matter it is inside the PT or bounced out a 5.1 file?
Thanks

lastbeethoven 05-27-2019 08:04 PM

5.1 file channel order
 
Hello everyone.

My hardware channel connection is DTS: L R Ls Rs C LFE

In Pro Tools , I set the output channel order as above. So, in Protools , it sounds great.

But after the 5.1 file was bounced to Quicktime, the channel chaos. It is still PT's default channel order, L C R Ls Rs LFE. Import it into Audition and Quicktime, I found the channel label is another order, L R C LFE Ls Rs, so it sound chaotic in sound fields. (R speaker sounds C, Rs speaker sounds LFE,..... totally disordered)

Is there any software setting in PT, that can fix this ? I mean , inside PT, sounds fine in DTS hardware system channel order, and need it also sounds fine in bounced out file.

Thanks a lot.

its2loud 05-27-2019 08:16 PM

Re: 5.1 file channel order
 
Actually. Pro Tools multi channel Wav file export is always going to be L R C Lfe Ls Rs. (SMPTE order) There is no way to change this unless you’re exporting mono files for each channel.

ProTools multi channel 5.1 track order is always FILM order.

The Bussing and Output order in the I/O is simply for proper monitoring for your studio setup.

If you want to change the order of the multi channel wav you’ll actually need to reorder the individual audio files within the multi channel audio track.

However, upon export, Pro Tools will still write the metadata as L R C LFE Ls Rs. Therefore. If importing the multi channel wav into another program such as Quicktime, this will be the order Quicktime will assign those channels.






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paulo m 05-28-2019 06:25 AM

Re: 5.1 file channel order
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by its2loud (Post 2527444)
Actually. Pro Tools multi channel Wav file export is always going to be L R C Lfe Ls Rs. (SMPTE order) There is no way to change this unless you’re exporting mono files for each channel.

ProTools multi channel 5.1 track order is always FILM order.

The Bussing and Output order in the I/O is simply for proper monitoring for your studio setup.

If you want to change the order of the multi channel wav you’ll actually need to reorder the individual audio files within the multi channel audio track.

However, upon export, Pro Tools will still write the metadata as L R C LFE Ls Rs. Therefore. If importing the multi channel wav into another program such as Quicktime, this will be the order Quicktime will assign those channels.






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I don´t think your info is accurate. In fact is the other way round:

http://avid.force.com/pkb/KB_Render_...4di&lang=en_US

Protools will always export in Film mode not in SMPTE/ITU. Therefore, you will need some other software to re-order the channels as needed.

I´ve been using Wave Agent, a free app from Sound Devices and it works great. You can also do it in Quicktime Pro 7, but it´s hard to find these days, unless you have older OSX versions running. You can also do it with command lines using FFmpeg, but I´m not familiar with it.

Here´s the link to Wave Agent. Just import the interleaved audio file exported from PT in Film Mode, re-assign the channel order in the provided I/O matrix and export again. Very easy:

https://www.sounddevices.com/product/wave-agent/

Hope it helps :-)

its2loud 05-28-2019 06:42 AM

Re: 5.1 file channel order
 
My info isn’t incorrect. The Avid Force information is incorrect. They haven’t updated it. Somewhere along the versions numbers they changed the output order in Pro Tools from FILM to SMPTE

I did extensive testing with wave-agent and Quicktime. Both confirmed the channel order exported from Pro Tools is SMPTE order. Feel free to do the test yourself.

This was a head scratcher for me as well which is why I did the testing. Now, this was a couple of versions ago, so it’s intirely possible that Avid quietly fixed this without announcing it as a “bug”. If I recall, it was probably 2018.4 when I noticed the change. It may even have been a version of 12

Here’s the original discussion. Have a look for BScouts post.

Also, keep in mind that you would never know this to be true unless you did this testing. When importing the multichannel wav into another program it will always read the header metadata of the file and order the tracks accordingly to that specific software. Unless you are manually telling the software what the channel order of the file is. This is where you’ll have issues. If you tell the software the channel order is L C R Lfe Ls Rs, it will rearrange those channels in the order it needs it. But if you tell the software the order is FILM and in actuality the order is SMPTE, this is when you’ll have audio coming out the wrong places.

http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t...light=Its2loud

Pete Gates 05-28-2019 10:46 AM

Re: 5.1 file channel order
 
Yeah,
Just to back up what its2loud said, Pro Tools exports multichannel WAV files in SMPTE channel order - it has done for many years now but there’s a lot of old information floating around. eg I tried to get an article on Pro Tools Expert corrected on this issue but failed. Internal channel order is film and that has always been that way (since Pro Tools 5.1!) which is probably partly the source of confusion.

Cheers,
Pete

BScout 05-28-2019 01:26 PM

Re: 5.1 file channel order
 
Oh no.. was worried that this was going to be a rehash of that last discussion. And I don't want to ever run that many tests again.

So, thanks, its2loud, for finding and linking back.
And it hasn't changed in Pro Tools.

For the last year it has been the ins and outs of 7.1 and 7.1.2 interleaved files now...:eek:

paulo m 05-29-2019 05:30 AM

Re: 5.1 file channel order
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by its2loud (Post 2527506)
My info isn’t incorrect. The Avid Force information is incorrect. They haven’t updated it. Somewhere along the versions numbers they changed the output order in Pro Tools from FILM to SMPTE

I did extensive testing with wave-agent and Quicktime. Both confirmed the channel order exported from Pro Tools is SMPTE order. Feel free to do the test yourself.

This was a head scratcher for me as well which is why I did the testing. Now, this was a couple of versions ago, so it’s intirely possible that Avid quietly fixed this without announcing it as a “bug”. If I recall, it was probably 2018.4 when I noticed the change. It may even have been a version of 12

Here’s the original discussion. Have a look for BScouts post.

Also, keep in mind that you would never know this to be true unless you did this testing. When importing the multichannel wav into another program it will always read the header metadata of the file and order the tracks accordingly to that specific software. Unless you are manually telling the software what the channel order of the file is. This is where you’ll have issues. If you tell the software the channel order is L C R Lfe Ls Rs, it will rearrange those channels in the order it needs it. But if you tell the software the order is FILM and in actuality the order is SMPTE, this is when you’ll have audio coming out the wrong places.

http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t...light=Its2loud

Well, I said that the info was incorrect not just by reading the AVID Force article, but based on my personal experience. I admit other people may have different experiences, so don´t feel offended. I´m running PT 2019.5 on Mojave.

Everytime I export a multichannel interleaved file from PT, the channel order is Film, regardless if I have created a SMPTE path. I import the exported file in Wave Agent and can confirm that. I re-map the channel order to SMPTE and export and get the channels ordered as I wish. The same in QT.

In the I/O setup, there´s also issues regarding channel order. If you create a new multichannel path and define it as SMPTE on the dropdown window, the bussing structure that PT creates is Film, which is odd. Anyway, I set PT for Film Mode and define SMPTE for physical outs either by changing the I/O individual channels or on the interface/converter. I get my exported files on Film and re-order quickly in Wave Agent.

its2loud 05-29-2019 06:09 AM

Re: 5.1 file channel order
 
1 Attachment(s)
No offense taken. I know what I tested and others have confirmed. However, I have not tested in 2019.5. Therefore, I will happily run some tests and report back what I find. It would be good to get to the bottom of this and have Avid change the documentation if needed.

For the record, I don’t think changing the output or bussing path order has any effect whatsoever on the interleaved channel order that ProTools exports.

Also, just so we are clear. When you say “export” are you talking about the type of file Pro Tools exports from Export Selected menu as shown in this picture? Or are you simply taking a printed interleaved file that was recorded on a 5.1 track directly out of the Audio Files folder? If it’s the latter then this would definitely only be a FILM order. Just trying to rule out discrepancies.

quadraphonics 05-29-2019 06:43 AM

Re: 5.1 file channel order
 
I could be mistaken, but Pro Tools will bounce out in either FILM or SMPTE depending on where one is bouncing from. If you are bouncing out of a bus, or from the output section - the bounce will be FILM. If you bounce out the physical outputs and the physical outputs are set to SMPTE order the resulting bounce will be in SMPTE order.

Randall


Quote:

Originally Posted by paulo m (Post 2527656)
Well, I said that the info was incorrect not just by reading the AVID Force article, but based on my personal experience. I admit other people may have different experiences, so don´t feel offended. I´m running PT 2019.5 on Mojave.

Everytime I export a multichannel interleaved file from PT, the channel order is Film, regardless if I have created a SMPTE path. I import the exported file in Wave Agent and can confirm that. I re-map the channel order to SMPTE and export and get the channels ordered as I wish. The same in QT.

In the I/O setup, there´s also issues regarding channel order. If you create a new multichannel path and define it as SMPTE on the dropdown window, the bussing structure that PT creates is Film, which is odd. Anyway, I set PT for Film Mode and define SMPTE for physical outs either by changing the I/O individual channels or on the interface/converter. I get my exported files on Film and re-order quickly in Wave Agent.



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