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-   -   Oxygen vs Axiom (buy help) (http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=282697)

play4theworld 09-22-2010 05:12 PM

Oxygen vs Axiom (buy help)
 
I'm trying to decide whether to get an M-Audio Oxygen 2nd gen 49 or an Axiom 49.

I'm thinking the oxygen but wondering if some features of the axiom are worth the price.

I'm a pianist so weighted keys are nice, and the keys on Axiom are mucg nicer but not 100 dollar difference.

I also thought maybe the pads were really worth the extra money but, I dont know.

But the feature i was VERY curious about was the HyperControl. How good is it and does it have cons? It seems like sometimes you wouldn't want it deciding what to set up the controls for.

Any opinions are valued, but please keep in mind that the price is a very large factor for me, even the 100 bucks because I've got a lot in this and a lot more heading towards it so I'm trying to do it pretty cheap. And I'm a guitarist/composer so when I say I'm a
"pianist" I don't mean thats why I have pro tools, I just play piano and am adjusted to the heavy acoustic feel.

play4theworld 09-22-2010 05:15 PM

Re: Oxygen vs Axiom (buy help)
 
sorry meant 3rd gen, whatevers latest.

filosofem 09-22-2010 09:28 PM

Re: Oxygen vs Axiom (buy help)
 
You're not going to get acoustic performance out of any digital piano or MIDI Controller. Semi-weighted keyboards with Keyboard Velocity Curve options for some type of Dynamic control would be preferable. Octave counts in some ranges of MIDI Controllers surely are not going to match acoustic pianos.

I would ask myself, what are these MIDI Controller usages? Am I playing 'piano' or am I playing computer-based synthesizers and emulation instruments.

Now days, MIDI Controllers aren't just keyboard controllers. Their sophisticated control surfaces that offer a board range of control services. Control services that assist in editing and mixing operations with tactile control over channel parameters, plug-in parameters, editing commands, transport controls, you name it.

I would again ask myself, what level of control do I want over my Pro Tools sessions? Do I need just channel control like track faders, mute, solo or do I need full plug-in control.

Personally, one of the cool things I like about my M-Audio Axiom Pro 49 is that I have all of that functionality in front of me. The Axiom Pro has become like the Qwerty keyboard and mouse, another extension of my Pro Tools workflow and they've become irreplaceable.

play4theworld 09-23-2010 05:43 AM

Re: Oxygen vs Axiom (buy help)
 
Yea, I also looked back at the price and its actually 200 dollars more. They all have the same basic performance (I don't mean like lifetime or feel) with midi right? What does Keyboard Velocity Curve mean? Velocity sensitive is important they both do it I think but one does better?

Julia B 09-23-2010 12:06 PM

Re: Oxygen vs Axiom (buy help)
 
Hi Play4theworld.

I'm a pianist, too. I normally play a Steinway grand. I thought I'd be happy with an Oxygen 61 especially considering my budget at the time, but I kept finding myself limited by the 61 keys. I actually use the extreme ends of the keyboard.

I've also played harpsichord and the non-weighted keys were not difficult to adjust to. However, due to the way I play, I ended up having to record one hand at a time sometimes when adding a piano part to a song -- I use Alicia's Keys for that.

And there's this other annoying thing that I noticed. I compensated for the latency since neither midi controllers (Oxygen or Axiom) generate their own sound. Plus I found I wanted an expression pedal as well. And half pedal (which I live by on a grand), but that can be compensated for by adding reverb. Compensating for the latency meant that when I was playing against a track I would come in about 1/32 note early so that I would hear the sound of the VI that I was using through the monitors. This meant going into the instrument track and shifting everything about 1/32 note later. Sort of a pain in the patootie.

You can adjust the velocity curve of the midi keyboard, or sensitivity typically in the VI you are using, like adjust the dynamic range.

I still have my Oxygen, and still use it for a stop start remote, but that function only works in PT. It doesn't work that way in Reason, and won't trigger the record function in Reason, however it will let you record the Reason instrument bussed to an audio track in PT, but again you've got the latency issue. If you are using a VI that is a plugin in PT, you're golden.

So to fight the latency issue I traded a Schecter C-1 for a used Alesis QS8, which is a semi-weighted keyboard, but does support expression pedals, and generates its own sound bank which I run out a monitor so I can hear it and time things correctly without having to compensate for latency. They're about $450 on the evil bay.

Otherwise if you don't need all the functions on the Axiom my advice to you is to get something like a Yamaha CP33 which is very nice and well made (you'll need to spend another $300 on a monitor or keyboard amp especially if your touch tends to be on the heavy side like mine -- I tried three Roland keyboard amps and bottomed out the woofers on all of them and settled on a Yamaha MSR100). Or you could go with the M-Audio ProKeys 88 which also has its own sound bank and a better one than my Alesis. It's just that the used Alesis is built like a tank.

play4theworld 09-23-2010 12:35 PM

Re: Oxygen vs Axiom (buy help)
 
Hmm...

I always thought midi controllers gave 0 latency, the VIs are a big reason I got pro tools. I spent a long time thinking about the 49 keys before (I actually marked my piano to see if I went over them much) and I think that should be fine for me, also I travel alot so 61-88 isn't really an option. Neither is buying a extra 25 key to take with me or something.

I wish there was some way I could here the latency but i guess there isn't really. I'd run up to Sam Ash or something but I live about 200 miles away from the nearest one. Theres a guitar center bout 30 miles away maybe I'll try and get there...careless currently though :p.

I don't think I would want to buy an all out keyboard. If I did could I just get one of those cheapo ones and run midi out of it? I don't need anything fancy.

taperocket 09-23-2010 04:33 PM

Re: Oxygen vs Axiom (buy help)
 
Neither of these units will feel like a piano. That being said, I just had this debate myself and went with the oxygen and I couldn't be happier. I have always like the design of the oxygen series and there is no hassle. Direct link works perfectly unlike Automap which doesn't work at all. I'm not sure about the axiom software but I like my oxygen because it works quickly and easily.

Julia B 09-23-2010 06:28 PM

Re: Oxygen vs Axiom (buy help)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by play4theworld (Post 1672472)
Hmm...

I always thought midi controllers gave 0 latency, the VIs are a big reason I got pro tools. I spent a long time thinking about the 49 keys before (I actually marked my piano to see if I went over them much) and I think that should be fine for me, also I travel alot so 61-88 isn't really an option. Neither is buying a extra 25 key to take with me or something.

I wish there was some way I could here the latency but i guess there isn't really. I'd run up to Sam Ash or something but I live about 200 miles away from the nearest one. Theres a guitar center bout 30 miles away maybe I'll try and get there...careless currently though :p.

I don't think I would want to buy an all out keyboard. If I did could I just get one of those cheapo ones and run midi out of it? I don't need anything fancy.

I'm a pianist who plays guitar. I do use the VIs to map out guitar work, then have to set the task of figuring out how to play them on the guitar. Yikes.

Well the MIDI itself is zero latency. The latency is in the VI especially if you are playing against a bunch of tracks you've laid down. It could depend upon how your brain works. Some people can train their hands and brain to function as in press the keys when you get to the beat. I operate on sound. So I depress the key to make the sound come in on time. That's how I get early. The latency is the time between when the PC sees the MIDI signal, processes it, and spits the sound out the VI via the soundcard or USB interface for example.

Those full keyboards do weigh about as much as a guitar tube combo amp and barely fit in the back seat of a Mazda.

However if you're thinking of using the keyboard as a practice instrument with the VIs with your laptop while you're on the road, one of the MIDI keyboards should suffice. The Oxygen isn't bad for the price.

play4theworld 09-23-2010 06:42 PM

Re: Oxygen vs Axiom (buy help)
 
@taperocket

Do you notice any latency problems like julia describes? Wonder if its a preference thing. Also, what type of automap or whatever are you talking about? I thought that was with the axioms and not oxygen.

How long have you had it? seems pretty durable?

@julia

I learned piano first but really I'm a guitarist who plays piano.

Off topic a little, did you ever try laying out a midi track and doing that sheet music thing? may be a little easier sometimes.


Also, My idea wasn't really for practice but more for a mobile studio. The whole idea with acoustic feel was just that sometimes i try and play a keyboard and make an idiot out of myself because I'm not used to it. I'm sure i'll adjust though.

filosofem 09-23-2010 06:58 PM

Re: Oxygen vs Axiom (buy help)
 
Keyboard Velocity Curves is basically touch. Your scaling how the keyboard is going to react to your playing.


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