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-   -   Clip effects as a paid add-on (http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=411388)

lesbrunn 08-04-2020 10:16 AM

Clip effects as a paid add-on
 
Hey guys,

I think clip effects should be available to vanilla users as a paid add-on, like Heat. What's with Avid? Every other DAW has it as standard.
What's so special about it that it every user cannot have access even if they have to pay extra for it?

JFreak 08-04-2020 10:20 AM

Re: Clip effects as a paid add-on
 
IMO, the less paid add-ons there are, the better. I can understand the voice packs thing, because many Ultimate users do not have HDX3 everywhere they go but still may need tons of voices, but please let's not ask Avid to sell us any more Toolkits now that they got rid of them.

HEAT is already included with subscriptions, it is just matter of time it is a standard feature.

lesbrunn 08-04-2020 10:44 AM

Re: Clip effects as a paid add-on
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JFreak (Post 2574280)
IMO, the less paid add-ons there are, the better. I can understand the voice packs thing, because many Ultimate users do not have HDX3 everywhere they go but still may need tons of voices, but please let's not ask Avid to sell us any more Toolkits now that they got rid of them.

HEAT is already included with subscriptions, it is just matter of time it is a standard feature.

Hey Janne,
Why can't it be like HEAT? I do agree with you in a way, though, about paid add-ons. But I think if Avid wants to make it exclusive for business reasons, they should make it available for people who are willing to buy. That's business, isn't it?
But it doesn't make much sense to hold it back anyway, since every DAW on the planet has had it for ages?

JFreak 08-04-2020 10:49 AM

Re: Clip effects as a paid add-on
 
HEAT is a plugin, albeit integrated nicely

lesbrunn 08-04-2020 11:13 AM

Re: Clip effects as a paid add-on
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JFreak (Post 2574283)
HEAT is a plugin, albeit integrated nicely

Touche. But I know most of the additional functions are just patches, and these can be added on or removed. Any patch could be presented as an installer...

JFreak 08-04-2020 11:14 AM

Re: Clip effects as a paid add-on
 
Yes, and let me repeat myself that it is IMO a bad thing if PT becomes that toolkit hell again

lesbrunn 08-04-2020 11:18 AM

Re: Clip effects as a paid add-on
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JFreak (Post 2574286)
Yes, and let me repeat myself that it is IMO a bad thing if PT becomes that toolkit hell again

Toolkit hell is not coming back. Avid has learned from their mistakes. How do you suggest I get clip gain functionality if I need it? Buy Ultimate?

JFreak 08-04-2020 11:19 AM

Re: Clip effects as a paid add-on
 
Yes, or wait for it to become a standard feature.

JingleDjango 08-04-2020 11:20 AM

Re: Clip effects as a paid add-on
 
Agree with JFreak. Would be a nice feature for Vanilla but I would rather not have a bunch of separate features parceled out as in-app-purchases. However I would like to see something closer to a unified feature-set across the board, or even a single software suite expandable by hardware.

I'm also not aware of clip FX as a standard feature among other DAWs, at least not in the same manner. I know that Ableton gives advanced control over clip playback including volume envelopes, pitch, looping, etc. It's not really the same thing, though.

JFreak 08-04-2020 11:24 AM

Re: Clip effects as a paid add-on
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by lesbrunn (Post 2574285)
But I know most of the additional functions are just patches, and these can be added on or removed. Any patch could be presented as an installer...

Actually no. All of the Ultimate features are installed when you install PT to begin with, just some features are unlocked when the software sees Ultimate license. No extra installing or removing needed, all you need is the Ultimate license.

lesbrunn 08-04-2020 11:25 AM

Re: Clip effects as a paid add-on
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JFreak (Post 2574289)
Yes, or wait for it to become a standard feature.

Sorry, but that's ridiculous. Did you get my original statement that every DAW on the planet has it for free? When is Avid going to implement it as standard? Five years from now? It should already be f#$KinG standard...

JFreak 08-04-2020 11:26 AM

Re: Clip effects as a paid add-on
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by lesbrunn (Post 2574293)
Sorry, but that's ridiculous. Did you get my original statement that every DAW on the planet has it for free? When is Avid going to implement it as standard? Five years from now? It should already be f#$KinG standard...

You may be better educated than I am, but please just for fun write a list of DAW's where this feature is included as standard. I bet it is not "every DAW on the planet"

dougdi 08-04-2020 11:31 AM

Re: Clip effects as a paid add-on
 
Reaper

lesbrunn 08-04-2020 11:33 AM

Re: Clip effects as a paid add-on
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JFreak (Post 2574292)
Actually no. All of the Ultimate features are installed when you install PT to begin with, just some features are unlocked when the software sees Ultimate license. No extra installing or removing needed, all you need is the Ultimate license.

Janne,
You don't get it. I don't need an Ultimate license... much more especially in order to get basic functionality that everyone else has for very few dollars perpetually.... That's extortion. Avid is greedy!

JFreak 08-04-2020 11:35 AM

Re: Clip effects as a paid add-on
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by lesbrunn (Post 2574296)
Janne,
You don't get it. I don't need an Ultimate license... much more especially in order to get basic functionality that everyone else has for very few dollars perpetually.... That's extortion. Avid is greedy!

Maybe Avid is greedy, maybe you are cheap. I do not know, either can be true.

But what I said was when you install PT you are installing every single feature, no need for patching and removing for additional features. All you need is a license.

lesbrunn 08-04-2020 11:35 AM

Re: Clip effects as a paid add-on
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dougdi (Post 2574295)
Reaper

Cubase, Live, Fruity Loops, just to name a few of the popular ones. Studio One.

lesbrunn 08-04-2020 11:40 AM

Re: Clip effects as a paid add-on
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JingleDjango (Post 2574291)
Agree with JFreak. Would be a nice feature for Vanilla but I would rather not have a bunch of separate features parceled out as in-app-purchases. However I would like to see something closer to a unified feature-set across the board, or even a single software suite expandable by hardware.

I'm also not aware of clip FX as a standard feature among other DAWs, at least not in the same manner. I know that Ableton gives advanced control over clip playback including volume envelopes, pitch, looping, etc. It's not really the same thing, though.

Probably not in the same manner, but you can add EQ and compression to individual clips, and have different settings for different clips. I just need the basics.

lesbrunn 08-04-2020 11:46 AM

Re: Clip effects as a paid add-on
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JFreak (Post 2574297)
Maybe Avid is greedy, maybe you are cheap. I do not know, either can be true.

But what I said was when you install PT you are installing every single feature, no need for patching and removing for additional features. All you need is a license.

OK. Maybe Avid is greedy. Maybe I'm cheap. Maybe you are an ultra wagging-tail Avid fan-boy. Who knows?

JFreak 08-04-2020 11:59 AM

Re: Clip effects as a paid add-on
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by lesbrunn (Post 2574300)
OK. Maybe Avid is greedy. Maybe I'm cheap. Maybe you are an ultra wagging-tail Avid fan-boy. Who knows?

Who knows. Last I checked, I have no tail :cool:

lesbrunn 08-04-2020 12:08 PM

Re: Clip effects as a paid add-on
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JFreak (Post 2574302)
Who knows. Last I checked, I have no tail :cool:

Look again. Just in case... Maybe you've started growing a little one :D. You do have a sense of humour bro; that's VERY cool in my book.

JingleDjango 08-04-2020 01:11 PM

Re: Clip effects as a paid add-on
 
Again, I can't speak for every DAW but I'm an Ableton Live Suite license holder. I have it open in front of me and I cannot see a way of adding individual clip fx in the manner we see in Ultimate. You have clip-specific control over transposition and warping. You can write clip-specific automation but that's not the same thing. You would need to insert a compressor and write an automation envelope in the clip editor but if you move that clip to another track without the same insert then the envelope is lost.

TrackerLe 08-04-2020 03:01 PM

Re: Clip effects as a paid add-on
 
Avid will never give up their payment model...
Every DAW has lets say near unlimited Tracks... Reaper, Logic, Nuendo, DP and so on... Only Avid is charging you to get more spectacular voices...
Protools Ultimate Native is a joke... Without Avid Hardware, you are limited to 32 I/O... Without HDX, you cannot use Sidechains in a normal way, cause this feature is HDX only...


Sure, this isn´t good, but i think, if you miss clip fx and more...switch to another DAW, which gives you all the things, Protools is missing...


I am not a fan of Avid and some decisions are just wow...


but no one is forced to use Protools...especially today with all the great alternatives... I use it, cause of all advantages HDX brings to the table and the workflow is great.. Still hoping Folders find a good way into the Eucon workflow... At last bring sidechain DC to the native mixer of PTU... Every DAW can do this... Whats the problem... Cause its really time consuming to prepare a session made with HDX for someone, who has only a native version of PTU...

Darryl Ramm 08-04-2020 03:26 PM

Re: Clip effects as a paid add-on
 
Avid will have to catch up with the rest of the world or be left behind. The amazing thing about being a market leader is how long things tend to stay in your favor while they are happening. And then looking back how quickly it seems a more rapid decline.

Folks don't want add-on pricing per small feature. Having a split Ultimate/Standard product already allows a good amount of price spread/value capture. Voice packs, Digilink licenses, and IO restrictions with CoreAudio/ASIO (esp. for Ultimate Users) are already enough of an insult to users.

And Avid reported results yesterday... maybe not bad given the COVID-19 situation, but maybe more will play out in Q3?? The more synthetic numbers look great, like migration to subscription. OK a nice thing but... it's a synthetic forced result. And "cloud enabled" whatever that means... just buzzwords for analysts, especially given that Pro Tools cloud collaboration is flakey as heck. But hard numbers like revenue... down 20%. Gross margins up 6% so some good management there. Cash down slightly. But at what long term impacts as costs are cut? And what other cutting is Avid going to have to do moving forwards?


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